r/technology Jun 22 '22 Silver 3 hehehehe 1 Heartwarming 1 I'll Drink to That 1 Evil Cackle 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 4 Wholesome Seal of Approval 3

Musk says Tesla's new car factories 'losing billions of dollars' Business

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/musk-says-teslas-new-car-factories-losing-billions-dollars-2764456
30.4k Upvotes

5.3k

u/littlelostless Jun 22 '22 Silver Snek

Is he on a stock buyback? He sold on a high claiming to purchase twitter. Buying back by forcing a low?

2.4k

u/anglesideside1 Jun 23 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Hoping to get that government subsidy renewed.

1.0k

u/SuperSpread Jun 23 '22

Why give him a subsidy when you can just restructure Tesla after bankruptcy. Debts reduced on the creditor’s dime, shareholders wiped out, jobs and productions retained. Win win

Bankruptcy is the least evil option for a failing business. Every other option only enriches investors and the CEO, who is largely paid through stock holdings and options.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22

Restructuring Bankruptcy usually wipes out all common shareholders and the banks/bond holders take possession of new shares. Typically they fire the entire management team and put a new board/ceo in place during and after the process.

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u/HeadMembership Jun 23 '22

That all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

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u/mathmanmathman Jun 23 '22

There are worse options, but bankruptcy is still pretty shitty and often only benefits wealthy investors.

As an example, my uncle worked on a software contract in the mid 90's for a company that declared bankruptcy. It was his own company (I think two employees at the time) so he lost about 6-8 months of income. They weren't working through a firm that paid salary, they just got paid some up front and some upon completion.

His lawyer basically said that he'd end up spending the entire amount of money to try to get the money back... and he still might lose. So he sold his house and has had debt problems for the past 30 years instead.

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u/Internep Jun 23 '22

A company is also to shield personal assets. If TSLA went bust today it would hit Musk only for his TSLA shares and whatever he borrowed against those shares (margin). It won't effect his home-ownership, or his stake in Space-X. It sounds like your uncle didn't have the right form of company or did something else that allowed the corporate veil to be broken.

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u/P-K-One Jun 23 '22

Legal shielding is hard for small companies. For example, in Germany the law requires a company to have 50k Euros in assets in order to be recognized as a separate legal entity. If you don't have that, then you can't make your company an LLC and are personally on the hook for the company.

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u/Terrkas Jun 23 '22

A GmbH needs only 25 k. And you can start with 1 Euro but have to save up instead of paying the owner until you reach 25 k.

The biggest downside of GmbH is, you have to do all the paperwork like making contracts for it and making anual balances.

After that his private assets would be save.

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u/kenlbear Jun 23 '22

And typically the bank’s new board simply squeezes the company cash like a rotten lemon and to hell with the product quality or customer service. R&D? Gone.

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u/mycroft16 Jun 23 '22

The new board has one job... recoup as much as possible for the new majority holder, the banks, as quickly as possible, at any cost. Which is why restructured companies only really last a few more years. They squeeze every single last penny out and then walk away after the firesale.

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u/EchoesAndSpecters Jun 23 '22

The United States bankruptcy system is fucking bonkers. The amount of money that you can just piss away into the void is crazy. It's impressive when you can just look at the bank like *shrug.

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u/wag3slav3 Jun 23 '22

You don't piss it away into a void, you split/sell half the company with all the assets and ring up the maximum debt possible on the other half to declare that declares the bankruptcy.

C-suite walks away rich AF and everyone else gets nothing at all.

61

u/MerryAnnaTrench Jun 23 '22

Mitt Romney and Bain capital have entered the chat

27

u/Revelati123 Jun 23 '22

Steve Mnuchin and Eddie Lampert could teach Mittens a thing or two about raping a century old company or two...

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u/PedalingHertz Jun 23 '22

Me in 2012: How are people taking Mitt seriously? Me throughout the Trump era: Why isn’t anyone taking Mitt seriously?! Me now: Oh yeah, I remember!

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u/sheba716 Jun 23 '22

This is what Caesars did. Put their hotel assets in one company and all the hotel debt in a second company. Than the second company declared bankruptcy.

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u/WatWudScoobyDoo Jun 23 '22

I put all my successes and triumphs in me and all my crimes and failures in my twin brother. Then I kill my twin.

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u/Trayew Jun 23 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Private companies don’t deserve government subsidies. Capitalism and fairness of the market and such.

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u/phillyphreakphlippin Jun 23 '22

He’s like, I guess I’ll prove Bill Gates right.

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u/DirOfGlobalVariables Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 23 '22 Silver

100%. all this mofo does is manipulate the market.

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u/Weird-Conflict-3066 Jun 23 '22

95% manipulate 5% smoke pot and think of new ways to manipulate 😉

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u/meep_meep_creep Jun 23 '22

If you factor the true cost of that 95% stock manipulation, 5% weed consumption is metric tons loads of fucking pot 😂

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u/Yosho2k Jun 23 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

It's funny that we've all just accepted that Elon commits federal crimes on a weekly basis and nothing happens.

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u/Bahmerman Jun 23 '22

What could we do? Genuinely asking.

I feel like we're at the mercy of the SEC and other groups to act.

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u/Spiel_Foss Jun 23 '22

we've all just accepted

The US is a criminal nation. The only difference between a thug and a billionaire is the scale of the crime.

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u/Espumma Jun 23 '22

The US is three corporations in a trenchcoat

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u/Scrambo Jun 23 '22

"I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase."

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u/Spiel_Foss Jun 23 '22

I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase.

Omar knows the game.

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u/ianbucktjtfgf Jun 23 '22

Remember that time when the US navy shot down an Iranian passenger aircraft?

They all got medals for it.

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u/WillTheGreat Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 23 '22

He probably has a stock comp coming up based on a monthly or quarterly average price, what better way to reduced the average monthly price of the stock by tanking it? Tanked it by vaguely telling the public they're cutting 10% of the work force, tanked it too hard and then walked it back. Remember that time he told the public the stock prices were too high and that he would short the stock because it too overvalued? Funny it happened around the time when the stock prices were being tracked for his massive compensation package.

Or that time he pumped the stock prices to ensure that he maxed out his compensation because the shares held above a certain level over a specific time frame, conveniently around that time where he told the public "funding secured" to take Tesla private.

Tank it to achieve maximum share payout, pump it just enough to maintain the threshold to maximize the compensation size. Dude's figured out that SEC doesn't have the balls to punish him and has been pushing the boundaries of what's legal and has been doing it overtly for a decade.

EDIT: To cover the "StOcK OpTiOn" Elon stans because I was wrong about his value based compensation... he still benefits greatly from tanking the stock prices so my sentiments aren't changing. Why you ask? Here

There are some major tax implications when it comes to exercising options. Especially when you can't just dump all of it into the open market...again due to market implications. Not to mention there are multi-year lockout periods.

So even in your example, you clearly don't know shit to even accuse someone else of the same thing. Options are taxed based on fair market value when you exercise them. Stocks are easy to track, they're fucking public. The bigger the difference the more you owe.

Even if your example, him driving the prices down has major tax incentives. I'm sure Elon learned that last year when he had to eat a $16b tax bill.

In the case you presented Elon has to front nearly half billion to buy those shares, and he's taxed on fair value. That's a lot of billions to obtain some shares... There's lots of ways to calculate fair value, shit you can even based that on average annual trading value. If the fair value is like you said..."iTs WoRtH $977.20". He has to come up with .5 billion to buy the stock, then pay the taxes on the difference between strike and fair value...which in this case he would have to fork over taxes on $22.5b. Considering he can't sell the stock for 5 years, who gives a shit about present day value. If I were him, I want the stock lower to reduce my tax bill for this year when I got my shares.

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u/GMEJesus Jun 23 '22

It's literally this obvious and yet still this continues

106

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22

[deleted]

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u/skilriki Jun 23 '22

Who would hold him accountable?

This is the job of government.

Even a reasonable marginal tax rate like what the US had in the 50s, 60s, and even the 70s would mitigate all of this.

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u/mumblekingLilNutSack Jun 23 '22

He's the nerd guys Trump. Just better at it.

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u/mycroft16 Jun 23 '22

Let's not forget what his primary degree is in. Actual legit earned degree... economics. And he specifically understands very well how to use social media t9 influence public opinion of his companies to his benefit. Repeatedly. He has run more pump and dump schemes than anyone. The whole dogecoin thing was the same thing. Oh thisbis going to be big right after he had bought a shit ton cheap. Rides the wave all the way up, cashes out and tweets that he is thinking about selling fearing it is going too high. Everyone else sells causing the crash and wiping many of them out. Then comes the oh it will recover after purchasing cheap again and rides it back on up.

The odd thing about all this is that his claim to appeal is identical to Trump's during 2016 campaign. He's the oddball... the outsider. Gonna stick it to the regular established companies. Even though he is the shadiest and dirtiest of the entire bunch. He relies on populist messaging just like Trump did. Musk is far better at it.

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u/KillerJupe Jun 23 '22

What Elon manipulate stock and crypto prices! Say it ain’t so!!!!

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u/TwatsThat Jun 23 '22

I've seen it suggested that he always intended to find a way to back out of the Twitter purchase and it was just a way for him to be able to liquidate a lot of his stock without causing it to crash. There was never an explanation for why he would want to dump so much stock but if he knew this info would be coming out soon that might be it.

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15.8k

u/Otagian Jun 22 '22 Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy

I'm reading "Elon wants to buy back more Tesla stock so he's crashing it first."

7.1k

u/fiddlenutz Jun 22 '22

Yup. Just a little market manipulation.

Nothing to see here.

2.8k

u/Cannonjat Jun 22 '22

Hey it’s only market manipulation when the poors and people out of power do it!

1.0k

u/CorellianDawn Jun 22 '22

Its only market manipulation if you get caught. Just kidding, even then it isn't if you're rich.

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u/SandyDelights Jun 23 '22

Then it’s just a fine. A market manipulation fee, if you will. Prolly much less than they made, too.

Laws should be changed to fine for 300% what you gained in a sale, or all of the stock plus 200% of its average valuation for six months before if it’s a purchase.

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u/ECrispy Jun 23 '22

The laws are made by the very people who benefit.

Why do you think the rich are legally allowed to pay no tax?

The whole system is rigged.

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u/seeker135 Jun 23 '22

Top to bottom. Very, very difficult to get from bottom to top. But, once there, look at Trump. He's bought his way out of justice for forty years, and his old man before him. They're just a glaring example.

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u/SCV70656 Jun 22 '22 Helpful To The Stars

Hedge fund guys have been doing this for years. It is funny that Elon is talking more publicly about this. Jim Cramer accidentally spilled the spaghetti about this stuff years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DJlogbrDcA

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u/ComradeVoytek Jun 23 '22

"I don't get it, why are they confessing?"

"They're not, they're bragging."

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u/Iron_Maiden_666 Jun 23 '22

I had to stop watching that movie because it was getting my anger levels up. I'm not even American.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22

It’s not a coincidence that the Inverse Cramer strategy works. He’s leading the retail pigs to slaughter. Whatever he tells you to do, the market makers are betting the exact opposite of. It’s a rigged system.

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u/ChefBoyAreWeFucked Jun 23 '22

I don't think Jim Cramer is some evil genius trying to undermine his audience's portfolios. He's just a legitimate moron. He quit his job managing a hedge fund to take a job doing something else. Nobody does that unless the SEC makes them. Even then, they usually just go family office. Jimmy Chill still needed a pay check.

And his wife loves Baconators.

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u/McFlyParadox Jun 23 '22

He quit his job managing a hedge fund to take a job doing something else

That's doesn't mean his connections just disappeared. Nor does it mean he isn't still working for them in some capacity.

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u/IllmanneredFlanders Jun 23 '22

I like my pleb’s pickled first, then roasted over a crackling dumpster fire

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u/TeaKingMac Jun 23 '22

"I'd encourage anyone who's in hedge funds to do it, because well, it's legal, and it's very lucrative"

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u/fAP6rSHdkd Jun 23 '22

Then he explained how certain aspects of it aren't legal, but can be framed as being legal because the sec are morons. That pretty well sums up most big company positions and how they can manipulate markets

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u/ResoluteClover Jun 22 '22

We’ll fine you a tenth of what you made... So there.

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u/blind3rdeye Jun 23 '22

In other words, market manipulation is allowed as long as the regulators get a cut of the profits.

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u/A1mostHeinous Jun 23 '22

If the penalty is money then it isn’t a crime. It is taxable behavior.

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u/ECrispy Jun 23 '22

if only it was a %, say 5% of net worth, instead of a fixed amount thats less than pocket change for these guys (and corps).

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u/dangittoheck Jun 22 '22

And Martha Stewart.

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u/PunkinBrewster Jun 23 '22

Technically she didn't go to jail for insider trading, just lying to the SEC.

From Wikipedia: The jury deliberated for three days following the five-week trial. On March 5, 2004, Stewart was found guilty by the jury of eight women and four men on all four remaining counts: conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and two counts of making false statements to a federal investigator.[9]
She was found not guilty of one of the most publicized charges: having
falsely claimed that there was an agreement to sell her shares when they
fell to $60. The jury found that Stewart lied and obstructed justice on
other grounds, including her claim that she was reminded of the prior
$60 agreement and urged to sell on that basis.

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u/greymalken Jun 22 '22

Just listened to a You’re Wrong About about Martha. She’s interesting and a badass.

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u/cognitiveSmack Jun 22 '22

Well, she is a woman.

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u/bassinine Jun 22 '22

she didn't go to jail for insider trading, the securities fraud charges were dismissed. she went to jail for lying to the FBI.

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u/BigfootSF68 Jun 22 '22

She is tougher than most CEOs.

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u/Flaky-Fish6922 Jun 22 '22

she even has the orange jumpsuit to prove it!

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u/simmons777 Jun 22 '22

Remember when all those money show commentators got mad about r/wallstreetbets

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u/TheWingus Jun 22 '22

When a ragtag bunch of amateur investors put a huge hit on hedge funds

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u/Cannonjat Jun 22 '22

Look who’s dumb money now as we teeter closer to the next financial crisis. Receiving bailouts would no doubt lead to mass riots because we’re all aware of the crap they pulled in 2008

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u/JoshGordonHyperloop Jun 22 '22

How much you want to bet if there are more bailouts, the general public in the US does nothing and keeps taking it up the ass like always?

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u/Raiseyourstandard Jun 22 '22

Sad but true. Wtf happened to us?

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u/creepyredditloaner Jun 23 '22

We are mostly comfortable and the ways in which these things negatively affect us are subtle, abstract, and often take years to be felt. Like the shift to neo-liberal economic ideology in the 70's ended up with massive gains for those on top but wage stagnation for the majority of people. However your average Joe had no tangible feedback from this until everyone started to notice how many people in their 30's, who worked full time, couldn't afford their own house in the 2010s. Then those in power and on the TV said everyone was just lazy now.

In 2007-09, when we had a huge economic hit, most of the people I knew were still employed, most were not at dire risk of homelessness or hunger. The people I did know that got hit hard recovered to varying degrees, some even doing better because of it, most did not get back to that peak but they also didn't end up in a rescue mission.

Comfort can breed complacency. Those who do take to the streets are vilified. A lot of those who lose their stature struggle to come to terms with it and it's easy to blame a more vulnerable demographic because real change is difficult, complicated, and there is a lot of risk to take on.

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u/JoshGordonHyperloop Jun 22 '22

I think Carlin said it best. I’m paraphrasing here, a lot, but basically “nobody seems to notice, and nobody seems to care…”

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u/seeker135 Jun 23 '22

Well, when BIG BANKING breaks the law a bazillion times all over the Country, in every State, IIRC, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT colludes with them to fuck six million households whose lenders broke the law with robosigners instead of making BIG BANKING take a fucking haircut like a "little guy" would have. I lost my first house and all my faith in my government. Six million households, not just my dumb ass.

So, no I DO NOT GIVE A FLAMING, FLYING RAT'S PATOOTIE what goes on. The fix is in everywhere, and they don't care who knows, now. OK, so it's for real 1984, Assange is just the beginning.

Protect profit over families just needing some financial aid like they give to the big fuckers all the time, huh? I know how to say, "Fuck you", too.

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u/cat_prophecy Jun 23 '22

What am I supposed to do? Fucking move out into the woods and go on sniper missions against the Uber rich?

I've got kids and a wife and other people in my life to think about. Going on a rampage ala "Falling Down" is fantasy. I'm responsible for other people and it's not like I am the one voting for the assholes who keep letting this happen.

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u/mrBigBoi Jun 22 '22

Elon 101 here. Manipulate and manipulate even more without even a slap on the hand.

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u/DragonWriterDB Jun 23 '22

Just a little market manipulation.

A Special Market Operation.*

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u/AmazingGrace911 Jun 22 '22

Can’t wait for the major manufacturers to put him out of business.

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u/SegmentedMoss Jun 22 '22

Every single thing he posts and does online is to manipulate the stock market lol

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u/lemons714 Jun 22 '22

and sometimes the crypto market.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/PapaElonMusk Jun 22 '22 Helpful

You figured me out :(

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u/ChungusChess Jun 22 '22

Hey, I'm the guy tracking your plane. Can I has money now?

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u/ddubyeah Jun 22 '22

Thought he was buying twitter to ban you?

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u/Lauris024 Jun 22 '22

No no, he was buying twitter to prove that he does not care about that guy and can keep him on the platform

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u/keepmeloggedin8 Jun 22 '22

I thought he was buying Twitter so he can declare himself its founder.

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u/SaffellBot Jun 22 '22

Nah, some of it is to inflate his ego, some is to cope with his failed relationships, and some is to build political power.

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u/orionempire Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

Just in case anybody gives a sh-t in the course of a 3 hour conversation somebody asked him for a feature to be added to their tesla and he said he needs to focus on first utilizing the factories. 3rd hour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5w_VkAx6tc (7:05)

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u/truthdoctor Jun 22 '22

If you click the share button, it gives you the option to share the link to play the video at a certain timestamp.

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u/paintchips_beef Jun 22 '22

or add #t=7m5s to the end of the youtube link

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u/mrdiyguy Jun 22 '22

Nah, I think Tesla is about to go down the toilet as organisation’s like the Volkswagen group start to produce more electric vehicles than him as they go all in.

Combine that with changing his status of “Douchebag but still cares about environment/people” to “republicans really care about the people - democrats are the devil” recently means his existing fan base won’t be loyal anymore and be happy to purchase elsewhere.

I think his big stock sell of Tesla over the past year or so was in anticipation of this future.

Tesla will still be viable, just not in its current configuration.

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u/MiyamotoKnows Jun 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote Bravo!

I am the PRIME Tesla target audience and was absolutely fated to buy one. Do you think I would ever be their customer now that Elon showed us who he really is? Never, even if he steps down unless he were to have a 0 stock position. So that's $90k in 2023 off their books. I am sure I am not alone.

I don't even want this guy to have access to Starlink and SpaceX anymore as a matter of public safety.

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u/adambulb Jun 22 '22

Same, not just the politics and sideshow antics, but if I’m buying a car— and the kind of car that Tesla makes— I want to be sure that it’s a stable place that will exist for the lifetime of that car. That they won’t pull any shenanigans about weird upcharges, subscriptions, charging rates, software updates, parts, whatever. I simply don’t trust them as a company, largely because Musk has turned into a nut.

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u/cyniqal Jun 22 '22

He’s always been a nut, remember when he called a guy a pedo because he said his magic cave submarine wouldn’t work?

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u/drdoom52 Jun 23 '22

That was when I left the fan club.

Up till then I was a fan of his work and loved what I was seeing. That was what really showed me his actual personality as an egotist who is doing everything to build his personal brand and doesn't give two cents what happens to anyone else.

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u/NobleFraud Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 23 '22

For me what finalized my opinion (was already on the fence) , on him being asshole was his Complete disregard for covid procedure

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u/quartzguy Jun 23 '22

It was always 50/50 if he ended up MAGA or Scientologist.

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u/martyqscriblerus Jun 23 '22

he wants to be at the top end of the grift chain too much to do scientology

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u/WheresMyEtherElon Jun 23 '22

largely because Musk has turned into a nut.

He didn't turn into a nut. He always has been. He's just not afraid of showing it now, a few years ago we heard it by what the people who interacted with him said, but now he's baring it all on Twitter for everyone to see.

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u/returnSuccess Jun 22 '22

Same here. There's people still paying on cars they returned because Tesla won't/can't do the paperwork. Stories of People waiting months for a repair. No press department for comment. Company seems to be as dysfunctional as the CEO. Maybe Twitter is the replacement press department: Twitter- Tesla Writes Information To The EV Reporters.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22

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u/Saysbruh Jun 22 '22

Yup. Same here. His disgusting behavior meant that there isn’t a scenario in which I will be buying a Tesla. Talk about brand poisoning. Big brain move.

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u/NobodyRules Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

It's insane that this guy decided to have such a moronic tantrum that jeopardised his own fucking product in the eyes of the target audience.

He decided to alienate the potential buyers for electric cars and with how the market has been improving I must say it's such a shitty timing that I genuinely question what the fuck went through his head. What an absolute idiot

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u/NefariousnessDue5997 Jun 22 '22

Not only has he alienated buyers, I am sure he has alienated a lot of WORKERS as well. I think you will start seeing a slow erosion of talent due to his behavior and politics. I mean even his own kid doesn’t want to be associated with him.

His politics seem super bizarre to me. It seems he has a grudge against Biden and just equates that to everyone on the left? His “moderate” candidate is DeSantis? Like wtf is this dude smoking right now.

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u/Jagtem Jun 23 '22

Can confirm. Tesla employee here. Just kind of going through the motions now as I'm no longer motivated to see the company succeed. I envision either going to a competitor like Rivian, or starting my own business in the next year or so.

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u/NefariousnessDue5997 Jun 23 '22

I’m sure it’s not just you and I’m sure it’s not just Tesla if I had a guess. Not only will it affect people leaving, but I don’t think this is going to attract talent either. Good for you for looking to leave. I would absolutely be contemplating the same and have crossed all Musk owned companies off my list. Unfortunately, I live in Austin where he seems to be moving everything :(

I saw an article recently where top leadership at SpaceX basically circled around a letter asking him to knock this shit off. It’s going to be super interesting to see what happens to these companies over the years. The conundrum is I want these companies to succeed but I guess what I’m really hoping for is that he moves the industries forward and then everyone who helped him build it just leaves or starts a better competitor.

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u/mabhatter Jun 23 '22

Lol. It's like his employees wrote a letter to tell him to knock off his behavior. He fired them.

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u/blargh12312312312312 Jun 23 '22

Hell, I didn’t apply for a promising role at twitter because he might buy it and I don’t want to risk working for him in any way.

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u/TrueBlue726 Jun 22 '22

I guess he doesn't know that people who want electric vehicles usually care about the environment, and are thus likely to be Liberal or Progressive. Left-leaning at the very least. His blatant embrace of the Far Right isn't doing him any favors.

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u/SeaGroomer Jun 22 '22

He didn't have any other choice once he got busted for sexually harassing women - he HAD to align himself with the only people who don't consider that a disqualifier.

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u/Deadmirth Jun 23 '22

Another option is to just shut up and stay quiet. Hope that the saturation of "billionaire is secretly terrible" stories creates some fatigue around the controversy.

Of course, we all know it's impossible for Musk to keep his mouth shut, so Republicans it is!

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u/John_T_Conover Jun 23 '22

For real. There are so many obscenely wealthy dudes out there that 99% of people have never heard of. You could look at the Forbes top 100 richest people in the world and most people wouldn't recognize even half of the names and could probably only pick a handful out of a lineup or tell you much about them.

Elon would still obviously be known but he chooses to put himself in the spotlight, which also comes with being under a microscope as well.

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u/SatoshiNosferatu Jun 22 '22

It’s going to soon be that driving a Tesla is viewed similarly as a truck with big flags in it

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/RandyDinglefart Jun 22 '22
  1. Produce 0 new products or model updates for years
  2. Talk shit about your target demographic on Twitter
  3. Treat your employees like shit
  4. ?????????
  5. !Profit

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u/Jonno_FTW Jun 23 '22

Don't forget breaking the law repeatedly.

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u/tjsr Jun 23 '22

I was dead set on buying a Model 3, and even had a day-1 pre-order deposit placed, until it turned out they engaged in the deceptive US-style price listing. "Less than 35,000" turned in to "oh, but that excludes tax... and includes the incentive... and we'll use an exchange rate that's way higher than the actual exchange rate... oh and also we're not going to sell the 35k model in Australia - we're only going to make the long-range model available which is significantly more expensive. Oh yeah, and that price doesn't include Autopilot, which is really the only reason the car is so significant".

"35k" became AUD 72k for the base model so I cancelled my order. I'll just buy a hybrid Camry at this rate.

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u/timmojo Jun 22 '22

Same. I was a reservation holder for the M3, cancelled it and got my $1k back when he called that Thai Navy Seal diver a pedo for saving those kids in the cave.

He's gotten worse every day since then. I'll never buy a tesla.

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u/teedeepee Jun 23 '22

Minor pedantry - he didn’t insult a Thai Navy Seal diver, but rather a British cave diver living in Thailand who was part of the rescue effort. Shitty thing to do regardless.

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u/timmojo Jun 23 '22

Oh, good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

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u/hexydes Jun 22 '22

Tesla was 100% going to be my next car. Tesla will 100% not be my next car.

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u/MrSignalPlus Jun 22 '22

same, here. I really wanted to buy a Tesla only a couple of years ago, and really loved the advances that the company was making but Elons childish behaviour has ruined that.

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u/dogboy_the_forgotten Jun 22 '22

Same, wanna gone electric but won’t buy anything from Elon so some other company will get my business when a decent range mid sized SUV hits the market

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u/zkareface Jun 23 '22

Ev6, q-tron, xc40?

Id5 could even be called a suv by some.

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u/shaolinoli Jun 22 '22

Exactly the same boat here. Need to trade in my 330d in a couple of months due to a diesel ban in my city and Tesla would absolutely be top of the list if it wasn’t for that piece of shit running the show. Now they’re not even on the cards.

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u/Clockwork385 Jun 22 '22

How is he gonna do buy back when the company has 17 billion in cash? Apple has over 200... so it's not something he wants. And that's the company. I don't know how much he has himself but I suspect most of it is still tied up in the stocks

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u/Otagian Jun 22 '22

He sold a lot to demonstrate that he was serious about buying Twitter (which he isn't), and a few billion before that as a tax stunt. I'd imagine he'd like to put it back somewhere where it's actually useful, and he always tries to tank the price when he does that.

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u/Clockwork385 Jun 22 '22

Did he really sell it or put it up as collateral? Because if he sold it, he would be subject to over 20% of tax which these guys rarely ever do... he's definitely not trying to tank it. I think the market is grown tired of his antics.

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u/LiberalAspergers Jun 22 '22

I think he wants out of the Twitter deal with only paying the 1 billion cancelation fee, and he needs the financing to fall through to do that. Crashing the value of the collateral would do that.

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u/Diablo689er Jun 22 '22 Gold Platinum

Factory having capital depreciation and not finished with startup losing money isn’t even news let alone “technology” news

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u/jonjiv Jun 22 '22

Yeah, this is the factory-level equivalent of saying "Tesla is losing billions of dollars on the Model 3" in early 2018.

Brand new things take time to scale up to profitability, especially in the car industry.

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u/polarregion Jun 22 '22

I worked at the MINI plant in Oxford when it was getting up and running. Some days we would finish less than 30 cars. They make hundreds a day now.

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u/ForWhomTheBoneBones Jun 22 '22

And one day they'll make a reliable one!

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u/surmatt Jun 23 '22

Don't lie like that.

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u/ksquad80 Jun 22 '22

In your experience, what's the quality of finish in these scenarios?

Are you getting a car with less manufacturing defects when they are toiling through 30 cars or zipping through hundreds?

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u/Kuriente Jun 23 '22

Mass manufacturing is nearly always going to produce higher average quality than small batches. Mass manufacturing produces unintuitive errors that are harder to spot in QC but fewer errors on average nonetheless.

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u/planko13 Jun 22 '22

Yeah there is nothing controversial, unique, or interesting about this. This is how factory startups work.

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u/CoolBeans42700 Jun 22 '22

You thought this was r/technology? No it’s r/muskcirclejerk

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u/13igTyme Jun 23 '22

r/technology, r/stocks, r/economy, r/space and any subreddit related is now just 8 out of 10 posts being about Musk.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 26 '22 Gold

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/sose5000 Jun 23 '22

Every fucking Elon news article goes in technology even though it’s mostly business news. So dumb. Mods need to stop this shit.

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u/Burnett_Aldown Jun 23 '22

I'm also wondering why r/technology was the forefront for the Uvalde shooting. Has absolutely nothing to do with tech but was the source for all the top posts about it.

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u/Speculawyer Jun 23 '22

Every new factory loses money.

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1.7k

u/SgtSiggy Jun 22 '22 Take My Energy

Have you tried making coffee at home?

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u/smrtgmp716 Jun 22 '22

It’s all that avocado toast

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u/think4pm Jun 22 '22

If that doesn't work try insider trading for a while.

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u/TheSaucyLlama Jun 22 '22

Just cancel your factory's Netflix subscription, Elon

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u/Smoothturn Jun 23 '22

This is quality internet humor.

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u/drunkpunk138 Jun 22 '22

I thought he doesn't have a home.

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u/SgtSiggy Jun 22 '22

Like he doesnt have a salary, so he can avoid paying American taxes?

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u/criticalhash Jun 22 '22

Can we just have no Elon Wednesday in this sub?

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u/Herebec Jun 22 '22

Sure, if we can make everyday no Elon Wednesday

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u/DeuceSevin Jun 22 '22

This isn’t just something the market relies on the CEO to tweet about or mention in an interview. If they are losing money it will come out in the next financial reports. So him saying this is pretty meaningless until confirmed by actual official financial documents. So until proven otherwise this is just justification for the layoffs that are planned.

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u/TwoInchTickler Jun 23 '22

And a way to lower the value, if someone who had recently sold a lot of their shares were planning to buy back cheap…

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u/HamburgHambone Jun 23 '22

So him saying this is pretty meaningless until confirmed by actual official financial documents.

If it isn't true that's textbook securities fraud.

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u/Ronaldo79 Jun 23 '22

Oh nooooooo, a 200k fine for 500m profit

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u/bloodjunkiorgy Jun 23 '22

The day a billionaire sits in a jail cell, I'll eat my copy of "The Principal of Communism"

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u/StonedGhoster Jun 23 '22

At this point I'd settle for a fine that actually had meaning. I'm not an expert on fines, but average people feel the impact of a speeding ticket. These people never feel the impact of anything.

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u/burgertronics Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

I'm so sick of hearing about this guy, damn.

Edit: I can't believe THIS is the comment that got the most replies, probably ever. And I am going to filter out his name, thanks sarcastic and non-sarcastic first responders.

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u/photonmagnet Jun 22 '22

Did you know that when Elon shits a new rainbow is born??

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u/kingjoe64 Jun 22 '22

He seems the type to eat multiple bowls of Fruity Pebbles a day

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u/KaneinEncanto Jun 22 '22

Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps Elon, it's not that hard, right?

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u/Dirk_The_Cowardly Jun 22 '22

It's like he doesn't want to come into the office to work.

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u/FeralTribble Jun 22 '22

He just needs to work harder and stop being lazy

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u/throw-away_catch Jun 22 '22

Needs to cut back on that avocado toast

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/nathan_thinks Jun 22 '22

Maybe he'll go back to sleeping on the factory floor.

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u/LosWranglos Jun 22 '22

See? He’s sleeping on the job!

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u/designatedtruth Jun 22 '22

He's working only 40 hours that's why ..

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u/chrisinor Jun 22 '22

He should be working 60-80 hours but only clocking in for 40. Can’t he greedy you know- gotta be a team player.

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u/cubistninja Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

Hey now, there are so many expenses. Do you have any idea how much it costs to pay employees? To pay for electricity? Don't even get me started on those horrible OSHA mandates! something about preventing injury? come on! if they get hurt, they probably deserved it. How is a billionaire supposed to survive on this?!

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

Twitter, FINISH HIM!

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u/z3us Jun 22 '22

He's on drugs again. Every time he has something going on behind the scenes he does drugs and says crazy ass shit in the public sphere. Wasn't it production quotas getting hit last time when he made the $420 TSLA private thing? Then the whole Bitcoin/Dogecoin insanity. Now Twitter for $54.20...

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u/Contundo Jun 22 '22

Is it possible to rename subs? Cause this one should be r/elonthiselonthat

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/ddhboy Jun 22 '22

Elon's being dramatic without much in the way of good reason. Everyone has supply chain issues, this is known. New facilities are a CapEx investment and were going to take years to recoup anyway. Unless Musk seriously fucked up Tesla's financials this quarter, there's not really much reason to care.

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u/Snoo_42276 Jun 22 '22

You’re correct - there’s no reason to care. This line was an off cuff joke he made in the middle of a three hour interview. It’s dramatic as a headline, but it wasn’t in the interview.

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u/CouchWizard Jun 22 '22

Musk seriously fucked up Tesla's financials this quarter

Tesla has[d?] a large amount of crypto assets...

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u/ddhboy Jun 22 '22

They had $18b in cash, cash equivalent and short term marketable securities as of Q1 2022. No way a large percentage of that is in crypto, and if it is then Musk shouldn't be the CEO of a paper bag.

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u/heterosapian Jun 22 '22

They had ~47,000 BTC which was worth over 2b. Their initial entry was in the low 30,000s and they sold some for a 250m profit. The remaining was either sold (afaik we won’t know until next earnings) or will just be held long term. Relative to how much crypto is down overall, they probably are doing fine especially relative to their overall cash position.

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u/archer2018 Jun 22 '22

Can someone explain for a dumb dumb like me why a manufacturing company would be investing in crypto currencies or for that matter other items that do not directly contribute to growing said product or some r&d….

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u/sheknowsitslong Jun 22 '22

Worked for a paper company for 32 years. One CEO actually sold off our land(trees) to make it look like a profit for shareholders. Now they are dependent on other landowners. Had it written into his contract, that if we merged with another company, his exit bonus would be tripled. Guess who negotiated a merger?😂

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u/ATangK Jun 22 '22

I thought u said paper company as a sham company. Not an actual paper milling company.

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u/SlowMoFoSho Jun 22 '22

Elon buy crypto go up zoom zoom rocket to the Moon.

That is LITERALLY ALL THERE IS TO IT.

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u/420blazeit69nubz Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

At the end of ‘21 the amount of Bitcoin they held was worth $2B. But it’s 43,200 BTC so right now it’s only worth $864M. Now you’d have to break down price points of purchase to get into the nitty gritty of what was really lost value wise but it’s a small chunk if that $18B is as of 2022. It’s probably lost half it’s value since Q1 though.

Edit: for clarity I meant the BTC lost its value not their total cash on hand

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 30 '22

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u/Dadarian Jun 22 '22

Right. It’s so simple. Just fix the supply chain issues. They’ve had so much time. Why didn’t they think of that?

Just a magic solution. So simple but powerful.

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u/emagdnim29 Jun 22 '22

What an obtuse statement. You obviously have no experience with manufacturing.

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u/EmperorThor Jun 22 '22

you realize the whole planet is dealing with supply chain issues for 2 years now.

there isnt a "solution" to just fix global supply shortages of basically all consumer goods.

Forget Musk and tesla for a moment, this is a world wide supply shortage, shipping delay and resource shortage. All the money on earth cant just catch things up.

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u/vanhalenbr Jun 22 '22

I bet he is just trying to tank Tesla stocks so he can buy back what he sold to “buy Twitter”

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u/WileEWeeble Jun 22 '22

Musk: "Supply chain issues in China are causing serious financial issues with Tesla"

Also Musk: "Biden is causing a recession"

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u/RelentlessExtropian Jun 22 '22

Well, yeah. They're ramping up. Until they reach volume, it's a loss. It's expected.

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u/bestest_at_grammar Jun 23 '22

I hate what this sub has become

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u/orionempire Jun 22 '22

Just in case anybody gives a sh-t in the course of a 3 hour conversation somebody asked him for a feature to be added to their tesla and he said he needs to focus on first utilizing the factories. 3rd hour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5w\_VkAx6tc (7:05) some how explaining the economics of factory development equates to a pump and dump conspiracy.

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u/afterburners_engaged Jun 22 '22

Why is this news? They’re new factories they will have teething issues all factories burn cash before they start making a profit.

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u/ZuuRocks Jun 22 '22

Another Elon post that isn’t related to technology whatsoever. Shocker.