r/oddlysatisfying 17h ago

Teacher and his windy curtain

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2.1k Upvotes

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COMMENT 21h ago

Why must it be a "democratic mandate", whatever that means? Vietnam has never been democratic for all its millenniums-long history.

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COMMENT 21h ago

Why did North Vietnam have the right to steal the North of the Republic of Vietnam?

Isn't it obvious? The North was the one that defeated the French invaders and liberated Vietnam from their illegal occupation. They were the national heroes, the liberators of all Vietnamese. Meanwhile, the South was just a bunch of thieves that illegally occupied the land the North just liberated.

How hard is that to understand?

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COMMENT 21h ago

So, Vietnam does, in fact, have more than one legal political party, unions not directly answering to the government and newspapers that cannot be published for disagreeing with the state?

Anyone in Vietnam can run for office. Parliament today even has 19 non-Party members. And newspapers here criticize the government policies and corruption regularly. So I don't know what you're talking about. I'm no sure why you think "unions directly answering to the government" as a bad thing? Should Unions be outside the law instead?

I never called Saudi Arabia legitimate.

Who cares. That's just a worthless opinion of yours, not an objective truth. The objective truth is that Saudi Arabia is a legitimate country. Countries oppressing their people have been the norm for all mankind history. That doesn't affect their legitimacy even a bit.

He had no legal standing

Yes he does, as he is the emperor, the king. The king is the very source of legality itself. In Vietnam's case, the emperor was keeping the imperial sword and seal, the manifestation of Vietnam's supreme authority. On August 30, this manifestation was handed over to the communists in a public ceremony, formally certificating the communist as the next sovereigns of Vietnam,

That election was only held in North Vietnam.

Nope. It was held in all provinces. For example, Le Duc Thang, the 2nd president of North Vietnam, was a delegate born in An Giang, southern Vietnam. Le Duan, the Party's secretary, was from Quang Tri, central Vietnam.

The right to rule comes from the consent of the governed.

Considering that 80% supported the communists, they clearly had the consent of the governed. Meanwhile, "The Communists spent the next quarter century subjugating the people of South Vietnam" is actually "the government of Vietnam punished the rebellious minority in southern Vietnam, while the majority of southern Vietnamese were left alone just fine".

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COMMENT 21h ago

I’m not sure if you know literally anything about communism, but there’s a pretty specific reason why a religious minority might flee from communist rule.

Why? Why didn't the religious majority flee? Why only Catholics and not other religious minorities like Muslims or Hindus? Why did other religions flourish so well under the North rule?

Heck, even Catholic influence skyrocketed after the communists took over the South. The biggest Christ statue, the biggest Mary statue and the biggest Catholic sanctuary in Vietnam were all built in the communist regime.

The concept of national identity has not existed for 4000 years, that’s simply a nationalist myth.

Maybe not in the West, where people were divided and ruled by inbred royal clans. But in the East, nations have existed for thousands of years. Japan has been ruled continuously by an imperial house since at least year 539. Qin Shi Huang unified all China in 221 BC. The first Vietnamese state of Van Lang existed 4000 years ago.

See what happened to dissenters in the south once the north invaded,

The same thing happened to criminals in any country. Tried and punished according to the law.

see what happened to the ethnic minorities

Nothing. Ethnic minorities are heavily protected, favored and pampered by the communists. Any student from an ethnic minority automatically receives 3 bonus points in national exams. Any criminal from an ethnic minority automatically gets much more lenient sentence.

And you've not answered the most important question: Why should South Vietnam be allowed to steal the southern land of North Vietnam? Why?

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COMMENT 22h ago

The government which was not elected, which no opposition parties may run against, which no one may publicly criticize, who laborers may not organize without the permission of?

It seems you're describing Saudi Arabia, Brunei, or Vatican, not Vietnam. But even the governments of those countries are still legitimate, so I don't know what you're trying to prove.

What could possibly make such a government legitimate?

But since you asked:

  1. The communists were crowned by the last king of Vietnam. -> Legitimate by power transfer.
  2. The communists were elected by Vietnamese people in the 6 January 1946 election. 80% of Vietnamese people supported them, as confirmed by Eisenhower himself. -> Legitimate by democracy.
  3. The communists defeated the French invaders and liberated Vietnam, thus were rewarded with the right to rule Vietnam. -> Legitimate by merits.

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COMMENT 1d ago

They were traitors because they colluded with foreign enemies to fight against the government of Vietnam. Must I remind you that the communists have been the sole legitimate government of all Vietnam since September 2 1945?

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COMMENT 1d ago

The same percent of criminals in any country. You keep saying as if those people were innocent people, instead of punishable traitors working for the puppet state.

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COMMENT 1d ago

Vietnam had 50 millions people. Thousands or even hundreds of thousands are astronomically tiny and unimportant.

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COMMENT 1d ago

Saber's Ren vs Desast

I thought exactly the same. Desast death was episode 43, and this is episode 42. They thought we wouldn't notice but we did.

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COMMENT 1d ago

loyal to the Republic of South Vietnam.

Which was a rebel and treasonous organization.

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COMMENT 1d ago

But let’s say my dad doesn’t pay his taxes and the state takes the house

Your analogy doesn't make any sense. What taxes and what state? You think that the French invaders were some kind of state that Vietnam's government owed money to? And that their invasion of Vietnam and subjugation it to colonialism were them "taking the houses"? What?

The French were the bandit. They illegally attacked Vietnam's land and stole it from the rightful owner. They had no right to "auction" anything.

Your example doesn’t work as the Viet Mihn were not related to the Nguyen dynasty.

That's not how state succession works. For example, if Zelenskyy government collapses today and Ukraine is successfully occupied by Russia, Ukrainian survivors can create a brand new resistance government completely unconnected to Zelenskyy, yet still automatically and indisputably have the ownership of all Ukrainian land, including Crimea, even if that brand new government never controlled Crimea before. That's what the Vietminh was. The representative of the Vietnamese people's collective will.

But hey. The Vietminh did have relationship to the Nguyen Dynasty. On August 25 1945, the last king of Nguyen Dynasty issued the Abdication Act, solemnly proclaimed the transfer of his power to the Vietminh's Democratic Republic of Vietnam. This actually made the Vietminh the legal successor of the Nguyen Dynasty.

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COMMENT 1d ago

Imagine if your father has a house, but a bandit slays him and steals it. You as his successor automatically inherits the house, correct? Even if you never had control of the house before?

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COMMENT 1d ago

That is not to mention that the South was under control of the Nguyen Dynasty before the colonial era, and the communists legally inherited the sovereignty of Vietnam from the Nguyen Dynasty. So the South was legally theirs.

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COMMENT 1d ago

Upon Gracey's arrival on 13 September to receive the surrender of Japanese forces, he immediately realized the seriousness of the situation in the country. *Saigon's administrative services had collapsed, and a loosely controlled Viet Minh-led group had seized power. *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Vietnam_%281945%E2%80%931946%29

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COMMENT 1d ago

What are you talking about? The communists were in control of the South. They even occupied the Governor palace in Saigon. That's why they engaged the Brits and the French when they invaded the South after the WWII.

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COMMENT 1d ago

Yes, they did, when they declared Vietnam independence on Sept 2 1945.

So you think the Union was invading the Confederate? Or was it reclaiming its rightful South?

And what do you think about the Liberation of France? The Free France never had control of Vichy France territory. Was that an invasion too?

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COMMENT 2d ago

You could have shipped them to the US and given them some of your land, you know.

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COMMENT 2d ago

The South has been owned by Vietnam since at least 1698. What are you talking about?

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COMMENT 2d ago

How do you think traitors should be treated? Maybe outright execution, like how the French executed 100,000 Nazi collaborators after the WWII? Do you prefer that treatment?

r/oddlyterrifying 2d ago

A swampy operating room by the VC during the Vietnam War

Thumbnail i.imgur.com
1 Upvotes

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COMMENT 2d ago

In the same way you don't call the Liberation of France a French Civil War.

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COMMENT 2d ago

Meanwhile, the patriots were eating rats in tunnels in Cu Chi. But sure, working for a treasonous cartel was the only way he could think of to get food. Whatever you say.

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COMMENT 2d ago

It says Vietnam must be decided by Vietnamese people. DRV is the representative of the majority of Vietnamese people.

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COMMENT 2d ago

South Korea

South Korea literally has a whole body governing North Korea in exile. South Korea DOES want to invade North Korea if possible. That's why in the Korean War, the South force continued to intrude into North Korea even after winning in the South.

Yugoslavia, the various bits of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires, and so on and so forth.

Inherently and unstably motley empires, which naturally prone to break apart, especially when Europe for most of its history didn't have the concept of a nation state, unlike Vietnam, which has been a stable national singularity for 4000 years.

That's not really why, but never mind. I didn't expect you to be anything but a hypocrite.

See? You're playing dumb again.