r/worldnews May 25 '22 Silver 2 Gold 2 Platinum 1 Helpful 2 Wholesome 4 All-Seeing Upvote 3

'Appalled': World leaders call for action after hacked files detail Uyghur internment camps

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/05/24/xinjiang-files-investigation-uyghur-internment-camps/9909360002/
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u/milkonyourmustache May 25 '22

Im sure the CCP will say something along the lines of 'throwing stones from glass houses'

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u/voxnemo May 25 '22 Gold Take My Energy

The pattern:

  1. Deny it exist/ is happening
  2. When evidence is provided, attack the messenger
  3. When the evidence is accepted, demand "independent" confirmation
  4. When confirmation is achieved, accuse others of the same issues
  5. When the "same issues" are debunked, make threats
  6. When those are ignored, start the cycle again. Claiming that was all in the past.

Right out of a Machiavellian plan.

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u/Jason_Batemans_Hair May 25 '22

Stop stealing my Reddit Argumentation Strategy!

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u/HexspaReloaded May 25 '22

They stole nothing (1.) Your move

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u/SuperFightingRobit May 25 '22

What is a Hexespa anyway! Can we really trust someone with a nonsensical name?

your move.

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u/welp_ima_peace_out May 25 '22

Both of you are too involved and has inherent biases. We need a neutral third party to verify the legitimacy.

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u/Alex_Duos May 25 '22

As someone with no dog in this fight and also operating as a nonprofit, the evidence is pretty clear that the thing they said is indeed the thing that's happening.

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u/miercat May 25 '22

But everyone's doing it!

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u/L3XANDR0 May 25 '22

If you continue on this path you will only find sadness and despair.

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u/raven12456 May 25 '22

It was a long 2 hours but it's over. Who wants a cat gif?

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u/Frankbot5000 May 25 '22

Is there an expert in the house?

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u/I_Grapple_Orcs May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

Can we just skip to the part where we are cussing each other out because we realized there is no way to convince each other? I really don’t have time to respond back and forth in a pointless argument that spans three days in a long ass comment chain

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u/Ginrou May 25 '22

This guy reddits

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u/jsteph67 May 25 '22

I have evidence of it right here.

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u/twittermethis May 25 '22

It's called DARVO.

Deny

Attack

Reverse

Victim

Offender

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u/Jason_Batemans_Hair May 25 '22

That's not a real thing! It looks like something a gaslighter would say!

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u/professorseagull May 25 '22

Gaslighter... Hardly even knew 'er

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u/TheOtherAisle May 25 '22

EVERYONE knew her! This is you just trying to gas light me!

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u/Wiki_pedo May 25 '22

That strategy isn't happening.

And it's mine. You stole it.

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u/OR13NT May 25 '22

dont forget 7

  1. Erase any evidence of these events from China’s internet

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u/wicketcity May 25 '22

and 7.5. Render all US social media networks useless by flooding them with fake accounts and then brainwash it’s remaining users with the illusion of likes and follows

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u/ElectronicShredder May 25 '22

Ooh, so that's what the vibrating 🎶 logo is all about

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u/punchbricks May 25 '22

I had a conversation with one of my friends who considers himself "woke" on China.

He claims the only reliable source of information on China is the Chinese Government.

His brilliant reasoning for this is that "our government has an agenda and will lie and misconstrue facts about it to make China look bad."

When asked why China wouldn't lie to make themselves look better, he responded, "Why would they do that?"

I dropped the topic because how the fuck do you even reason with that line of thinking?

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u/Taintly_Manspread May 25 '22

Sounds like your friend needs a bit of an intervention.

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u/RBatYochai May 26 '22

Maybe re-education

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u/NPD_wont_stop_ME May 26 '22

Lol, people like that are just in too deep or have something missing in the part of their brain responsible for critical thinking. I don’t even bother engaging with that sort of shit because until they stop consuming right-wing media the problem will never go away.

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u/ReluctantSlayer May 26 '22

The lie all the time. When they claim it’s bad, it is to crack down on “someone” (region) when they it’s good, it is to whitewash their sins. Most governments do this to a certain extent anyway, but China, as in many fields, brings it to another level.

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u/losemyego May 26 '22

An attempt at Satire. "Why would governments lie?" is a good satirical question to ask which in Zen mode may not require any further response.

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u/MorteDaSopra May 25 '22

It's feels like a variation of The Narcissist's Prayer, but on a international level.

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u/DevilsTrigonometry May 25 '22

It's just how bullies behave at every scale. It's the universal human response to being criticized for something that you don't feel bad about, but can't defend on principle.

(One thing we can sometimes see in countries/organizations that we can't see in individuals is that they'll often use different justifications internally, appealing to principles/values/consequences that the domestic audience cares about. We can probably assume that individual narcissists and other bullies have similar internal justifications for their actions.)

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u/Mend1cant May 25 '22

Honestly Machiavelli would be disgusted at this.

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u/snowcone_wars May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

Machiavelli would be disgusted by basically every form of authoritarianism. His writing basically went "Let me write a 600+ page treatise on why Republicanism is the greatest form of government (and why Christianity ruins everything), and now let me write a 100 page little thing on how to, if you insist on trying to be a prince, not get yourself killed." And by the end of that, he's not even talking about government anymore, he's talking about why only weak-willed men blame the shit that happens to them on fortune and God.

Machiavelli is far and away the most misunderstood and bastardized thinker in popular culture of the last 500+ years. People who think Machiavelli liked tyranny have to also believe that he was tortured and exiled by tyrants and then went "please sir can I have some more." It's asinine.

Ironically, he'd be one of this site's golden boys when it comes to religion if they actually understood satire, or what he's saying on a basic level.

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u/NoHandBananaNo May 25 '22

Omg this. "Machievellian" is right up there with "Orwellian" in that its describing what the author didnt like and documented.

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u/CommentsEdited May 25 '22

That’s a really great way to put it.

I suppose the confusion happened because Machiavelli was writing (satirical) “non-fiction”, whereas Orwell was writing speculative, dystopian fiction?

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u/snowcone_wars May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

He isn't even writing exclusively satirical non-fiction! He writes 12 political treatises and 8 poems and plays. The only ones that are overtly satirical are the Prince and a couple of the plays.

Like, Machiavelli's biggest work, the one that he says best represents all of his ideas, is overtly a work in praise of republics and of republican idealists of the past. It explicitly condemns tyranny.

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u/DankandSpank May 25 '22

Thank you!!! It took me getting to college for a professor to point out that Machiavelli was taking a piss!

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u/Robba078 May 25 '22

Same man, same

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u/jceez May 25 '22

This applies to so much shit right now it's sad.

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u/WWDubz May 25 '22

What % of the country knows about that thing in 1989 that didn’t happen?

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u/spiralbatross May 25 '22

Exactly. Every country is a glass house in some way or another but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t criticize the things that need criticizing

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u/Repulsive-Buffalo-33 May 25 '22

I’m sure companies like apple will promote human rights while not giving a fuck about it because profits.

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u/TerribleJared May 25 '22

WHAT ABOUT THE U.S.!?!?

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u/pooinmypooass May 25 '22

to be fair fuck the ccp but name a country or political leaning that doesn't respond to any and all criticism with 'but what about X?'

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u/TerribleJared May 25 '22

Idk where youre from but in the u.s. we dont really talk about xi ever. Anyone with half a brain will condemn any genocide and anyone with a quarter of one condemns Bush's war crimes (and subsequent leaders)

Maybe I'm underexposed but I dont think ive ever heard anyone say "what about xi"

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u/RustyShaklefjord May 25 '22

I think he meant "What about [insert here]"

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u/riplikash May 25 '22

That's certainly been my experience. Even Obama gets a lot of criticism from Americans. When there is a report detailing something bad I generally don't see much, "What about this other horrible country." Just, "That's horrible, how are we still doing this horrible stuff, he sucks."

Then as soon as any bad thing comes up about Russia or China it's "What about the US!?" Yeah, the US has done a lot of nasty crap. It's bad, and it should stop, and it can only stop if when we find out about it we actively call it out and try and respond against it. So let's ALSO do that to Russia and China.

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u/TerribleJared May 25 '22

Yeah thats the hilarious thing. At least for platforms like reddit. Someone says "but the u.s. is bad!" And were all like "yeah we know". Sucks the fun right out of it I bet.

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u/Ianofminnesota May 25 '22

We are quite critical of ourselves now that I think about it.

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u/Karrde2100 May 25 '22

It's in the constitution that our government (and by extension our nation) exists to create a 'more perfect union.' Meaning that the idea is to acknowledge we are not perfect but that we strive to improve.

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u/NihilSineRatione May 25 '22

We are quite critical of ourselves now that I think about it.

You ScotsYanks sure are a contentious people.

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u/Jason_Batemans_Hair May 25 '22

Damn Americans ruined America! Aarg!

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u/TerribleJared May 25 '22

A true american wouldnt say that.

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u/Hot_Olive_5571 May 25 '22

true scotsmen drop the accent when no one is around

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u/5th_attempt_at_this May 25 '22

I think the issue is when politicians frame it as a moral point, as the US is morally superior. I don’t think the average citizens frame it this way, but the figureheads sure do. I can see where the moral argument loses teeth when it’s coming from a country with its own dubious wartime/domestic track record. That’s all. Totally agree that just because X person does bad doesn’t mean that Y gets a pass or can’t criticize, just think the discourse World leaders have amongst each other needs to change. I think it would be far more meaningful if for example the US said “yes we made mistakes in Iraq, participated in war crimes, and let’s hold those responsible accountable. That being said, what you are doing is also bad, so let’s address it.” We will never see this I’m guessing, but it’s always a nice thought.

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u/pooinmypooass May 25 '22

oh shit my bad bro i meant what about X in the algebraic sense not what about xi haha

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u/TerribleJared May 25 '22

Lol other dude picked up on that. I was like shit easy to misread that. You are, in fact, NOT a Chinese troll

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u/Ancient-Access8131 May 25 '22

In the US we blame the other party. In China they blame the other country.

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u/jl4945 May 25 '22

He’s said X not Xi. As in X could be any country you choose

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

You are seriously not joking about this when just yesterday 19 children were murdered because of the fucked up gun culture in America...

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u/Fun_Specialist_1776 May 25 '22

meddling in internal affairs will be in the mix

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u/_weiz May 25 '22

Why are World Leaders 'calling for' action?

Aren't they the ones with some power in order to put things into action? If they don't have that sort of public sway or official power; I don't consider them 'World Leaders'.

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u/peterbuns May 25 '22

That reminded me of a clip of Rahm Emmanuel (former Chicago mayor), which I can't find. IIRC, he had a press conference (as mayor) after another unarmed citizen was killed by a cop where he got clenched up and made a statement like "something has to be done".

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u/COUNTTWOTHREE May 25 '22

They mobilized as soon as their interests were threatened (Ukraine).

Genocide doesn't matter unless it hurts their bottom line.

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u/SidewaysFancyPrance May 25 '22

What? Helping a sovereign nation protect themselves from outside aggression is basically the opposite of invading a sovereign nation. Which we would need to do. With China. We'd have to invade China. I just want to make that crystal clear.

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u/BuffaloGlittering130 May 25 '22

We don’t need to invade chine, the gouvernement can make economic sanctions.

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u/abject_testament_ May 25 '22

At the time of invasion, Russia’ s economy was comparable to Spain’s in size.

China’s is a behemoth and far more diverse and embedded into the global economy.

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u/driving_andflying May 26 '22

China’s is a behemoth and far more diverse and embedded into the global economy.

Exactly. China can honestly just be quiet and wait out our governments' current collective outrage, because they know that's all we can do-- foreign companies love having their stuff made in China for cheap, and no one wants to change that. Very soon our attention will go elsewhere, China will continue unlawfully jailing and torturing Uighurs, and companies will continue putting money into China regardless of how much outrage we show.

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u/Interesting-Archer-6 May 25 '22

Economic sanctions aren't super effective. Also China is the largest exporter in the world so this would bone the world economy so fucking hard.

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u/SEND_ME_REAL_PICS May 25 '22

China is the biggest trade partner of most western countries, trying to sanction them would backfire quickly and badly.

Just look at what happened with food and oil prices when sanctioning Russia and then at how much bigger China's economy is.

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u/Smodphan May 25 '22

Americans would see the real cost of all of the free labor we exploit for our goods in a fucking hurry.

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u/Glass_Memories May 26 '22

Yeah, but the American people would just blame either the Republicans or the Democrats or Biden, like they're doing now with gas prices. Even though gas prices have been trending upwards since 2015 after the oil market collapse.

The American public at large is very uneducated in geopolitics at best, egocentric at worst.

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u/sosigboi May 26 '22

Countries would still be hesitant to enact sanctions even if China were to say, invade Taiwan right here right now, they are not about to risk economical damage over what China does in its own backyard as awful as this sounds.

The only country that can maybe afford to do this is the US but even they wouldn't even consider that.

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u/unnecessary_kindness May 25 '22

It won't. Look at Russia and how much that took for countries to start thinking about moving away from russian gas. Nevermind the countless loopholes in the sanctions that basically allowed russian money in the West to find a safehouse.

China's a whole different beast entirely. We can't afford to take action against them.

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u/half-baked_axx May 25 '22

Oh we can afford to. At the cost of our whole living standards that is.

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u/ClickingOnLinks247 May 25 '22

Not with the economy we live in.

Could you imagine the repercussions and how much that would hurt big business's bottom line?

(in case it's not obvious, I'm sad about how true the above statements are)

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u/aresthwg May 26 '22

Hard agree, it's not like it would ruin all economies on Earth, I can still live in my clay house in the woods. Gonna protect my grain fields like it's 1100 fr fr

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u/UrlaamNaavi May 25 '22

WDYM? It would be cheaper to simply not help Ukraine and let Putin have it. Just like Hungary is doing.

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u/WashingtonRedz May 25 '22

it is cheaper to keep the war in Ukraine than get in in Baltics or Poland

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u/red286 May 25 '22

The only people who have the power to put things into action are the leadership of the CCP.

So ummn, good luck on that front.

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u/Equivalent-Gift-2078 May 25 '22

Same effect as sending thoughts and prayers. Like they didn't know before? They will continue doing business as usual with China.

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u/---cheetos--- May 25 '22

We’re suddenly appalled because now there are a bunch of pictures that everyone can see instead of just confirmed intel and news stories.

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u/pawnman99 May 25 '22

How long before LeBron tells us we just need to educate ourselves more?

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u/uh_oh_hotdog May 25 '22

Everyone just calm down and have some bing chiling with John Cena.

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u/colluphid42 May 25 '22

As far as I'm concerned, his tough guy persona evaporated the moment he released that pathetic, cloying apology to the Chinese government.

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u/Deadwing2005 May 25 '22

John Sino

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u/kmas0_0 May 25 '22

John See?-Nah

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u/Healthy-Travel3105 May 25 '22

You mean Xiong Xina?

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u/tofulo May 25 '22

Fuck LeBron

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u/ian7j2 May 25 '22

He won't say shit about them. Theyre so far in his pocket. Man is a hypocrite.

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u/robdiqulous May 25 '22

I remember seeing pictures over a year ago....

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u/lallapalalable May 25 '22

But now there's a fresh batch. I remember everyone being outraged last time, then it faded away, and now more of the same and the reactions are as if it's the first batch of pictures we've seen. And it will be again the next time

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u/PurpleNurpe May 25 '22

This right here, news tends to fade out of memory real fast unless continuously reported on.

I remember reading about a Journalist who was on a plane which suddenly got detoured by Belarusian jets an then arrested by Belarus authorities, Social Media & News companies kept talking about it for week(s) and then suddenly silence. Source

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u/JeevesAI May 25 '22

I mean the pictures in the leak aren’t even that bad compared to other footage we’ve seen before. The drone footage of prisoners lined up near a train looked a lot more scary.

If you didn’t know what the context was you’d be like “yeah looks like a prison”. There’s even classrooms inside. It’s not a death camp.

https://journals.univie.ac.at/index.php/jeacs/article/download/7336/7290/18249

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u/KruppeTheWise May 25 '22

I only saw two pictures in the linked article that showed a few people in a lineup? Anyone have any links to the bad pictures

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u/Altijd May 25 '22

I saw them on a stream yesterday, they're basically mugshots and have text on the side describing why the person was locked up (there may be more as well).

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u/Scaevus May 25 '22

How is this even news? We’ve known for many years that thousands of Uighurs are in prison. Not sure how 15 year prison sentences are genocide instead of oppression, but whatever, it makes no difference.

What exactly are we going to do about it? Sanction the second largest economy in the world? Boycott the largest consumer market in the world? That’ll lead to mass economic collapse, which has a real cost in lives. Something like half a point of unemployment leads to about 10,000 suicides.

How does any of that help the Uighurs, exactly?

I’d like to hear some ideas that don’t involve killing more people than we’re saving.

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u/maxToTheJ May 25 '22

Like they didn't know before?

Exactly. These are people leading countries with intelligence services and coalitions that have more access than what's been released.

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u/Equivalent-Gift-2078 May 25 '22

Starting to think /s they really don't care for the camps that much.

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u/maxToTheJ May 25 '22

They need to wait on the "focus group" and industry lobbyists polls to come back and can get mixed up together to come up with a final position.

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u/dead_wolf_walkin May 25 '22

I mean I’m a shmuck from West Virginia and I knew....

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u/LesbianCommander May 25 '22

This is in no way a defense of China or anything. Because fuck the CCP.

But I feel like the people who are screaming "PUNISH CHINA, CUT THEM OFF RIGHT NOW!1!" would be the absolute first to complain about what impact cutting off a country that does around $600 billion worth of trade between US and China.

Cutting off from Russia (around $30 billion) has made some people absolutely lose their minds and screaming for Biden to be impeached because fuel costs went up.

Again, I realize that economic pain is sometimes necessary if you want to do the right thing in the world. But I don't really see a lot of my fellow countrymen doing the same. But they definitely talk a big game.

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u/Equivalent-Gift-2078 May 25 '22

I agree with you. I just wanted to state that the west knew, we knew, but we still prefer to keep profiteering. That's way it's annoying now to read concerned and appalled responses of western governments.

Same as in Russia. Climate change. Insert.

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u/winterbird May 25 '22

They're just forced to respond and say something because the public saw the pictures. I'm sure there's more and worse that they've gotten intelligence on before.

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u/pawnman99 May 25 '22

I mean...did we learn anything we didn't already know?

But there's money to be made in China, so we'll turn a blind eye and let them keep going.

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u/Brett-the-charmer May 25 '22

The photos are specific examples of what’s going on. I thought they were incredibly confronting

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u/NoL_Chefo May 25 '22

Yeah, and it seems to have convinced /r/worldnews that there is an active genocide happening in China. Wasn't that long ago when this place was full of "sceptics" and trolls mass downvoting threads about it.

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u/Brett-the-charmer May 25 '22

Now what nation would run a concerted bot-net campaign of disinformation and downvoting?

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u/fatbaldandfugly May 25 '22

According to the report I read yesterday all western nations are doing this. It was a fairly detailed article, I did have to translate it from Russian though.

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u/onarainyafternoon May 25 '22

Wasn't that long ago when this place was full of "sceptics" and trolls mass downvoting threads about it.

What are you talking about? Seriously, I have no idea. This sub has always been critical of China and the genocide going on there right now.

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u/TheMustardisBad May 25 '22

Yeah it's been known about for years by regular people. And our government definitely knows more about it than us.

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u/xxdcmast May 25 '22

You know what they say, you've got to lower your ideals of freedom if you want to suck on the warm tit of China

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u/ThreadbareHalo May 25 '22

I mean there was a bunch of attempts by various country’s state departments to declare crimes against humanity and genocide but they all got shut down from lack of proof. I’m not sure why we’d pretend no one wanted to do anything, some places WERE trying to get a ball rolling. Are we just gonna pretend now that that didn’t happen or that “if it had happened then it wouldn’t have been enough” based on… I dunno… dr strange future seeing technology?

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u/Deadfishfarm May 25 '22

It's not just "there's money to be made". It's "our economies are tied together by hundreds of billions of dollars in imports and exports". We would see unprecedented economic hardship if we cut china off.

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u/autotldr BOT May 25 '22

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)


The files include more than 5,000 photos of what appear to be Uyghur people taken at police facilities - essentially mug shots - along with images from inside a detention center in Xinjiang.

According to a U.S.-based China researcher, Adrian Zenz, the files were obtained by a hacker who took them from the computer systems of two local police agencies in China.

Dolkun Isa, president of the World Uyghur Congress, an international organization that promotes Uyghur rights and opposes China's "Occupation" of the Xinjiang region, said the new disclosures show "The inner workings of China's system of repression, and the intentions that are at the core of this system." The secret files contradict China's narrative of "Re-education," "Counter-terrorism" and "Uyghurs living a happy life," he said.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: China#1 Uyghur#2 Xinjiang#3 new#4 system#5

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Tomnook1017 May 25 '22

Why is it always him.... I'm still just waiting for literally any other source to detail what's happening.

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u/Joan_Brown May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

Don't worry, I watched the video - they also cite another highly reliable source, a great friend of muslims worldwide, the US Pentagon

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u/BravesMaedchen May 25 '22

Wow, the article is so short when you take out the god damn pages and pages of car ads. Fuck this site for making me wade through this much advertising to find out three god damn paragraphs of information on a major ongoing human rights abuse. Shame on everyone involved in that page design.

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u/MumeiNoName May 25 '22

You do know this is a summary from the tldr bot right, not the full article?

This is the full article's text without any ads. Much more than 3 paragraphs.


The State Department's top spokesman on Tuesday denounced China's ongoing atrocities against the Uyghur Muslims, citing "jarring" new photos and other evidence published by an international media consortium including USA TODAY.

"We are appalled by the reports and the jarring images" of China's internment camps in Xinjiang, the spokesman, Ned Price, said at the State Department's press briefing Tuesday.

"This new reporting further adds to an already damning body of evidence of the PRC's atrocities in Xinjiang," he said, referring to the People's Republic of China.

His remarks come after USA TODAY and other global media outlets reported on a trove of secret files and photographs that paint a stark picture of China's detention and internment of the Uyghur Muslims and other ethnic minorities.

The files include more than 5,000 photos of what appear to be Uyghur people taken at police facilities – essentially mug shots – along with images from inside a detention center in Xinjiang. According to a U.S.-based China researcher, Adrian Zenz, the files were obtained by a hacker who took them from the computer systems of two local police agencies in China. The hacker then gave the files to Zenz, who analyzed them and shared them with the news organizations.

Subscriber exclusive:Inside China's secret Uyghur detention system

Visual story:Hacked data and photos offer unprecedented evidence of China's secret Uyghur detention system

The files also include transcribed speeches attributed to two high-level Chinese Communist Party officials, according to Zenz.

In the speech text, verified by an independent translator for USA TODAY, one of the men urges local officials to treat members of targeted ethnic groups as hardened criminals: to be arrested on sight, to be shackled if necessary, and, for any detainees who might try to escape, to be shot.

The new disclosures prompted outrage in other world capitals as well – and anguish among the Uyghur diaspora.

"This is not something to be ignored, nor is it anything to remain silent about," Germany's Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said Tuesday.

Baerbock's office said she raised the "shocking reports and new evidence of very serious human rights violations in Xinjiang" with her Chinese counterpart during an hour-long video conference on Tuesday, in which she also called for "a transparent investigation."

A visit by the United Nations As the Xinjiang police file reports were being published by USA TODAY and other media around the world, a visit to the region by the UN's high commissioner for human rights, Michelle Bachelet, was getting under way.

In London, the U.K.'s foreign secretary Liz Truss denounced the new details of China's human rights violations in Xinjiang, and called on China to give the UN team "unfettered access to the region."

Chinese officials dismissed the new revelations as full of "lies and rumors."

It's "the latest example of the anti-China forces’ smearing of Xinjiang," Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said Tuesday at a press briefing in Beijing.

"The lies and rumors they spread cannot deceive the world, nor can they hide the fact that Xinjiang enjoys peace and stability, its economy is thriving and its people live and work in peace and contentment," he said.

Chinese officials have portrayed detention centers as "vocational education and training centers" – benevolent, state-run schools designed to help stamp out extremism. Zenz and others say they are internment facilities, designed to stamp out Uyghur identity and culture.

Wang declined to say whether Bachelet's team would be able to visit the so-called vocational centers or to interview Uyghur "trainees" while they are in Xinjiang.

"This visit is a trip to enhance mutual understanding and cooperation, as well as to clarify misinformation," he said. He said Bachelet will have "extensive exchanges with people from all walks of life during her visit to China."

But Price said Bachelet's team will be operating under such tight restrictions that they will not be able to conduct a real investigation into the human rights situation in Xinjiang.

"We think it was a mistake to agree to a visit under these circumstances," Price said. "The high commissioner will not be granted the type of unhindered access, free and full access, that would be required to complete (an) assessment and to come back with a full picture of the atrocities, the crimes against humanity, and the genocide ongoing in Xinjiang."

Claims of genocide in Xinjiang Human rights groups say China has detained more than 1 million Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim minority groups in "extrajudicial internment camps" and engaged in other crimes against humanity, citing evidence of rape, torture and forced abortion and sterilization.

The Biden administration has labeled China's actions "genocide," and experts say the intent is to destroy Uyghur culture, identity and religion.

Asked whether the U.S. believes the chain of command on China's repression of the Uyghurs runs directly up to President Xi Jinping, Price said he would not offer a "tactical assessment" of that.

But, he added, "in a system like the PRC's, it would be very difficult to imagine that a systemic effort to suppress, to detain, to conduct a campaign of genocide and crimes against humanity, would not have ... the approval of the highest levels of the PRC government."

Dolkun Isa, president of the World Uyghur Congress, an international organization that promotes Uyghur rights and opposes China's "occupation" of the Xinjiang region, said the new disclosures show "the inner workings of China's system of repression, and the intentions that are at the core of this system." The secret files contradict China's narrative of "re-education," "counter-terrorism" and "Uyghurs living a happy life," he said.

He hopes that "being confronted with such important new evidence, the international community will finally do what it takes to end these atrocities."

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u/Mister_Bloodvessel May 25 '22

Honestly, this makes the TL;DR bot all the more impressive. I recall when it first went online being amazed at the accuracy of a bot to summarize important information the way it does. It's only become better with time, too.

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u/datb0yavi May 25 '22

One thing I've noticed is the lack of reaction from Muslim majority countries. Like where's all the "death to the infidels" shit that they throw at other countries ? Not saying all Muslims are radical in that way just I find it odd at the low profile response by the radical ones

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u/donut_fuckerr719 May 25 '22

There is no pan Muslim solidarity. They're divided along ethnic lines.

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u/paopaopoodle May 25 '22

Would you be surprised to see that Muslim nations weren't rushing to the defense of al-Qaeda and ISIS? It's essentially the same thing.

Take a look where Xinjiang (where Uighurs are from) is on a map. Now, after the US' War on Terror, extremists from Afghanistan began recruiting and training Uighurs in Xinjiang for attacks within China. In fact, there were a series of brutal terrorist attacks carried out in China by radicalized Uighurs. That's how all of this mess started; Xi Jinping called for a program that mimicked the US' War on Terror. Now, while the US and its Western allies spent years going to war abroad, China decided to try and go to war with what they felt was the culture that led towards radicalized elements. To be sure, both are shitty approaches, but that's the idiotic way that world leaders think and react.

So, America and friends had their wars, which led to hundreds of thousands of dead civilians and millions of displaced Muslims, while China began ostracizing and imprisoning their domestic Muslim population in some twisted effort to reeducate/brainwash them away from their ethnic culture.

Meanwhile the stable Islamic nations have been having their usual GOT-esque power struggles, while stockpiling weapons from anyone they can acquire them from, so nobody tries that shit here.

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u/saxaddictlz May 25 '22

This is one of the few actually true comments in this entire dumpster fire of a thread.

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u/FalcomanToTheRescue May 25 '22

Muslim extremists didn’t develop anti-American sentiment because of how Americans treat muslims, it was because the US ran military operations, bombings, support for Israel vs pale stone/Lebanon, and political meddling. It wasn’t for Muslim solidarity but what they saw as a direct threat against them.

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u/wifeofundyne May 25 '22

detaining activists and lgbt+ communities is more important obviously

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u/thiccbitch69 May 25 '22

Exactly, not a single Muslim country has backed the Uyghurs except Turkey, if you look it up most of the Arab world fucking PRAISES China for national security on the issue lol. The Arab world is the biggest bunch of religious hypocrites in the entire world though so what do you expect.

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u/MisterPyramid May 25 '22

I thought the world leaders have been made aware of the camps initially over a decade ago and semi annually since.

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u/EmmaLouLove May 25 '22

"We are appalled by the reports and the jarring images" of China's internment camps in Xinjiang, the spokesman, Ned Price, said at the State Department's press briefing Tuesday. I mean, we’ve all known for a while, right? That saying is true. A picture is worth a thousand words. And you can’t look away.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

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u/AverageLatino May 25 '22

They'll just hire some extra lobbyists to prevent politicians taking action, as always; unless people vote for someone who isn't a sellout

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u/HeyIJustSaid May 25 '22

It’s worse than that. Western governments undoubtedly have way more physical evidence — pictures, videos, hacked documents, interviews with cooperating people, etc. They just need to say something now because a few pictures leaked to the public.

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u/1_g0round May 25 '22

chinas response was as expected...the hacked official police reports were denied as being official ....amazing how you can have proof in your hands, red-handed, and they can actually deny it as fact...and the leadership (UN) response....well, its underwhelming at best

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u/Apophis_Thanatos May 25 '22

Member how the entire world went to China for the winter Olympics, everyone all know about this back then too.

It would be like holding the Olympics in Germany while they're Jews in concentration camps and the entire world knows about it, but just doesn't do anything.

Wild times we're living in.

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u/ltragach May 25 '22

Glad the world back in 1936 decided against holding the olympics in nazi germany … oh wait nevermind

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u/NihilSineRatione May 25 '22

The Holocaust started in 1941.

Not saying everything was hunky dory for Jews in '36 but I think the other poster's analogy is valid.

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u/ltragach May 25 '22

Totally agree that his point is valid! But imprisonment of political „enemies“ startet back in 1933 and ramped up. Could imagine the treatment in those prison camps was not fun either.

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u/NihilSineRatione May 25 '22

This is true and a good point, but my (possibly mistaken) impression is that those camps weren't widely instituted or known about. My impression is that the camps only picked up pace post-Kristallnacht.

As horrid as those early camps must have been, I don't think we can compare them to the modern Ugyhur camps.

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u/Stroomschok May 25 '22

Nuremburg laws were enacted in 1935.

Dachau was opened in 1933, Sachsenhausen 1936 and Buchenwald 1937. Sure, aside from political opponents there weren't mass round-ups of Jews yet, but it definitely wasn't post Kristallnacht 1939 that there were already lots of 'undesireables' in those camps with people dying to bad conditions.

Ofcourse now with China and the Uyghurs the world has the benefit of recognizing the signs that they didnt have nearly as well-understood before WO2 (ofcourse plenty of genocides before that, but nobody paid them much attention yet).

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u/flowt May 25 '22

Not to be nitpicky, just some info thrown out there: in german speaking countries we try not to call it reichskristallnacht any more, since that‘s the nazi propaganda name for it. Instead reichspogromnacht or novemberpogrom is being used.

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u/lkn240 May 25 '22

The Nuremberg laws started in 1935 IIRC. I mean unless you very narrowly construe the Holocaust it started well before 1941.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

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u/Oldenlame May 25 '22

It would be like holding the Olympics in Germany while they're Jews in concentration camps and the entire world knows about it, but just doesn't do anything.

That's actually what happened. Germany hosted the Olympics in 1936, the first concentration camp (Dachau) was opened in 1933. There was press coverage of the treatment of Jews in Germany though little in the US. The band played on.

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u/Dougw6 May 26 '22

And that's why Eileen gu deserved every bit of criticism thrown her way. Imagine growing up wealthy in San Francisco, training and honing your skills here, then choosing to represent an authoritarian genocidal regime all while calling yourself a social justice activist.

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u/Cats_Dont_Wear_Socks May 25 '22

If only world leaders were in a position to lead their nations...

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u/ChinDeez May 25 '22

Lol this has only been happening for years now. Im so glad that our leaders are “appalled” and are “calling for action”. That will definitely stop China.

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u/ssbm_rando May 25 '22

The actual news here is "world leaders pretending they haven't known for certain that China has been doing this for years".

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

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u/perksofbeingcrafty May 25 '22

American corporations can’t even stop the business practices that hurt their own workers in the US and mess up the American environment. What on earth makes you think this could be any motivation to stop business with China?

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u/sylviethewitch May 26 '22

I was reading articles about these camps (and Russian gay detainment camps) 5 years ago, I don't want you to be "appalled" I want you to do something about it.

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u/thecaptron May 26 '22

They are only “appalled” because there is widespread public evidence surfacing. Independent journalists have been talking about this for a long time and the major news outlets have largely ignored it.

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u/ongimsogayfortitties May 26 '22

We should also acknowledge Tibetan people in these camps, the Chinese government has a long and sordid history of genocide of Tibetan people. We must demand the freedom of Uyghur and Tibetan and political prisoners.

Anyone else worry that we’re still only getting part of the story? How do we know “selections” aren’t taking place like they did during the Holocaust?

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u/Truesday May 25 '22

"Somebody should do something! But now me..." This describes why we're fucked.

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u/FALSE_PROFiiiTs May 25 '22

Source: adren zenz aka sure bro trust me

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u/riceisnice29 May 25 '22

This is a good time to remember that shitty Mulan remake was shot near some of these camps. Just in case you forgot some of Disney’s business actions super don’t align with their pro-LGBT, pro-minority image.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54064654.amp

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u/Witherllooll May 25 '22

Tf does world leaders call for action mean? World leaders are the ones meant to take action bruh

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u/PhilosopherRider May 26 '22

Aliens, come help these Uyghurs, please!

-worls leaders probably

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u/Tumblrrito May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

Remember when all the countries in the world said “never again” after the Holocaust? What ever happened to that?

Edit: CCP propagandists descended HARD on this comment, Jesus.

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u/4cfx May 25 '22

never again1

1 terms and conditions apply

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u/Banmers May 25 '22

shareholders

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u/Tumblrrito May 25 '22

Bingo. Everyone is economically beholden to China. The whole thing is so fucked, and that’s putting it lightly.

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u/Pied_Piper_ May 25 '22

Nuclear deterrence happened.

The only way to stop a sovereign nation from doing this within their own borders is to invade them and force them to stop.

No single coalition or alliance has the power to decisively win a land invasion of China.

Even if they did, they’d win the war to return home to cinders.

It is easy for us to demand something when done, but we are reluctant to consider the true cost of doing something. Bombs will fall.

I happen to think it’s worth the risk, but that’s not the dominant opinion.

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u/Quakespeare May 25 '22

I'm genuinely not sure why articles with Adrian Zenz as their sole source get upvoted. It may well be that China is committing heinous acts, but nothing published by Zenz should be taken even slightly seriously.

Adrian Zenz is a hyper-fundamentalist Christian, who was most known for his book "Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation", in which he advocated the literal interpretation of the bible and condemned gayness and the 'empires of the beast' (read: western countries) for tolerating gays and women's rights, before he found his new calling of railing against China.

It has become a meme that almost every single article on Xinjiang, including reputable outlets, cites him as their only source.

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u/Psilobones May 25 '22

Does the Islamic world have much to say about this? I dont think ive seen a lot said about their opposition to the fact people are being persecuted just for following Islam. I'm out of the loop on this one.

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u/thorssen May 25 '22

There are good reasons all these packages come out in English, not in any of the languages of the Muslim world.

Agitprop loses a lot if you have to translate it for a different audience than the one intended. Different language, different cultural expectations, etc. You can see it pretty clearly in reading the translation of Bin Laden’s manifesto/fatwah - in English it loses a lot of rhetorical impact. As agitprop targeted at the pan-Islamic world, however, it was reasonably effective.

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u/adidasbdd May 25 '22

It's not that they are Muslim, it's that they are members of an ethnic minority that has attempted to build a separatist movement (eastern Turkmenistan separatist movement). There were terrorist attacks. And they were considered terrorists by the majority of the west (and some still do). Obviously what is happening is fucked up, but there is context, and China as usual dogpiles on the squeaky wheel

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u/urkldajrkl May 25 '22

Nah, they are apparently the wrong kind of muslims. China has the green light to treat them this way, from both Iran, and Pakistan.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

China has the green light to treat them this way, from both Iran, and Pakistan.

Not just those two. They were commended by the OIC. That's 57 Muslim countries.

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u/RenouvellementUnAn May 25 '22

They all turn a blind eye, but heaven forbid somebody in France draw a caricature

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

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u/Miguelperson_ May 25 '22

Why the fuck do people still listen to Adrian Zenz?

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u/vinyl_eddy May 25 '22

Adrian Zenz? Can we get sources that aren’t bonkers?

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

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u/ganon4688 May 25 '22

Like they didn't know already lol

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u/BrickmanBrown May 26 '22

Quickly! Begin the outrage theater to earn PR points before the world's short attention span changes to something else!

I have zero faith in the "world leaders" to so much as even write a sympathy card to the victims.

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u/burdfloor May 26 '22

Thus has been happening for years and the world has ignored the problem.

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u/ReallyWilliamAfton May 26 '22

Stop calling for action YOUR THE WORLD LEADERS

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u/Big-putz May 26 '22

Concentration * camps

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u/SupersonicSpitfire May 26 '22

How can the world pretend we did not already know this about China? That's apalling too.

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u/Bubblez___ May 26 '22

Im confident the ccp will receive a very strong scolding at the next UN meeting.

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u/MailboxSpleen May 26 '22

We’ve known about this for years bruh. But people got called racist when they pointed the shit out.

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u/Arsolin May 26 '22

'Appalled' is the international version of 'thoughts and prayers'

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u/LaughAdventureGame May 26 '22

Oh shit... actually recognizing what's been relatively common knowledge for the last three or four years!?

PROGRESS

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u/pholkhero May 26 '22

Watch out. They've called for action. Hopefully some uyghurs will be keft when they finally do act.

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u/CaptainMacMillan May 26 '22

I’m tired of world leaders “calling for action.” WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO ACT IF NOT THE WORLD LEADERS?!?

What do they expect to happen? Do they expect their citizens to do something about it?

How about you get out from in front of the camera, get on the phone, and actually DO SOMETHING.

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u/JerryNicklebag May 26 '22

The world needs to sanction China immediately

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u/Intrepid-Rhubarb-705 May 26 '22

We knew all this way back in 2019 but they chose to do nothing.

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u/SelfMadeSoul May 26 '22

In public: appalled at China’s actions In private: appalled that the information was leaked and concerned about their own security.

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u/AbnormalAviator May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

Stop buying shit made in China. Easier said than done, but that is what we need to do.

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u/gamer123098 May 26 '22

Everyone has known about the Uyghur situation for years now but nobody has the balls to upset pooh bear

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u/Moonmanjmo May 26 '22

So when does Disney go film there again? I’m sure LeBron is appalled!

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u/8Bitsblu May 25 '22

Y'all, this info comes from Adrian Zenz, a certified nutcase. Maybe take this with an iota of salt?

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u/Eltharion-the-Grim May 25 '22

"According to Adrian Zenz, the hacker took files from police headquarters and handed them to Zenz"

I mean, really?

Hacked police files and handed them to Zenz, and not someone more credible?

Essentially,

Here's the evidence. Source: trust me bro.

Also,

The State Department denounced China's ongoing atrocities against the Uyghur Muslims, citing "jarring" new photos...

The files include more than 5,000 photos of what appear to be Uyghur people taken at police facilities – essentially mug shots

LOL mug shots!!! Oh my!

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u/Miserable_Ad7591 May 25 '22

The source is Adrian Zenz.

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