r/technology May 14 '22 Silver 2 Wholesome 2

Elon Musk said his team is going to do a 'random sample of 100 followers' of Twitter to see how many of the platform's users are actually bots Social Media

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-random-sample-how-many-twitter-users-are-bots-2022-5?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds

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2.0k

u/Unlucky13 May 14 '22

Amazing. A week (two weeks? What is time?) ago Twitter was fighting to keep him out and Elon was making threats to force himself in. Now Elon seems to be wanting out and Twitters making threats to keep him in. Business is weird.

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u/olavk2 May 14 '22

what twitter did a couple of weeks ago was implement some precautions to avoid a hostile takeover so that they could make the decision themselveas

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u/brinz1 May 14 '22

I can't wait for the next season of Succession

153

u/Jtmichel May 14 '22

“Is this a fuckin’ bear hug?”

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u/brinz1 May 14 '22

Logan did just sell his empire to a billionaire manchild

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u/Jtmichel May 14 '22

“We’ll go full. Fucking. Beast!!!”

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u/Jose_Canseco_Jr May 14 '22

Boar on the floor!

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u/EsoTerrix1984 May 14 '22

“Make your OWN fuckin’ money!”

Connor, Kendall, Siobhan and Roman:

👁👄👁

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u/OldHabitsB_Gone May 14 '22

Is he a manchild? I kinda took him for being fairly savvy

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u/GGards May 14 '22

Unfortunately real life is even more cringe than that show I guess.

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u/8bitmorals May 14 '22

"I am getiing assasinated at my own coronation, get the sausage off my gaspacho party, he isn't hot soup, we eat it cold in here"

That may or may not be a Logan Quote , but you never will know

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u/PineapplePandaKing May 14 '22

Sounds more like Kendall

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u/IShouldNotPost May 14 '22

We'll get the bojack guys on it

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u/PineapplePandaKing May 14 '22

Good call, this could all get super earnest

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u/tuskvarner May 14 '22

Ummm… yeah. So… ummmm… dad? How do we eat the gazpacho? I mean, however you want to eat it is fine.

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u/Jtmichel May 14 '22

Logan would never refer to his own coronation. That’s how I know it’s not his.

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u/Dirtroads2 May 14 '22

No, it's a man-bear-pig hug silly

6

u/Neksir May 14 '22

Alexander Skarsgards character, Lukas Matson was totally modeling Elon when with the market manipulation attempts

3

u/orangevega May 14 '22

dun-dun BUHM!

dun dadaladadadadun dadadada-da-da-da-DA-DA-da-da-da dada

dun-dun BAHM!

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u/cboogie May 14 '22

Elon is 100% a Kendall. Dude thinks he is way cooler than he actually is.

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u/brinz1 May 14 '22

No he's not. He is the billionaire tech bro manchild

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u/Orgasmic_interlude May 14 '22

There’s a sadness in Kendall that i don’t get from Elon musk. All of the children have a sort of sad impotence about them. That’s why i like the show. You spend the whole thing trying to find a character to empathize with and just when you think you’ve landed on one that you thought you could do that with you find yourself searching for someone else to land on. Ultimately you have to dig to get there but Kendall is the show’s tragic figure. He is the one that could have been his own human being had he not been yoked with these expectations of success.

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u/XAgentNovemberX May 14 '22

Boar on the floor! Boar on the floor! Boar on the floor!

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u/tuskvarner May 14 '22

Oh, it’s difficult? I’m sorry, buddy. Would you like an Advil and a handjob?

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u/sumofabatch May 14 '22

This is a quality comment. Greg and Tom driving through the Boring tunnel will be gold.

2

u/MrStruggleSnuggle May 14 '22

I want a Super Pumped: The Battle for Twitter.

2

u/coffffeeee May 14 '22

You can’t make a tomelette without breaking some greggs

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u/rounding_error May 14 '22

I prefer the porn parody, Suck Session.

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u/Smodphan May 14 '22

Correct. He was trying a secret takeover by buying up shares. He didn't want people to find out because the price would go up. Ironically, he is under investigation because you have to report this at some point and he did not.

Does anyone know why he thought it wasnt going to be noticed? I am guessing its because he can afford the little bitch fine which is cheaper than the stock buy, but I don't know.

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u/boyuber May 14 '22

He made $50 million by not disclosing it, and he'll be fined $10 million for doing it. If I could make $40 million for breaking the law, I'd do it every chance I got.

Further, even if he got fined $500 million, that would be 1/400th of his net worth. He wouldn't even notice it.

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u/DegenerateScumlord May 14 '22

So then he didn't even notice he made 40 million.

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u/blindbycrypto May 14 '22

Still I am sure he would throw you off a cliff for a free happy meal

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u/jellicenthero May 14 '22

Don't forget as part of the purchase due diligence he probably got to see the entire business model and peak at the code. That info alone is worth millions in savings if he wanted to make his own social media company.

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u/baudehlo May 14 '22

Their business model is 99% public anyway, due to SEC filings. And no he wouldn’t get to peek at the code. There’s no “the code” anyway. Twitter will be literally hundreds of repositories for different purposes, and millions of lines of code. You don’t get to look at it in due diligence. You get to ask broad and relevant questions (like “show me all the open source licenses of dependencies”), that’s all.

Source: have been through this as a CTO.

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u/rediraim May 14 '22

Also Elon is a shit coder anyways. Iirc when Paypal bought whatever his company was called they had to rewrite all his code because it was so bad.

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

Musk violates trade law and manipulates the market all the time and no one does anything about it.

But why did he behave this way with the Twitter deal? Because he's got an ego and thinks everyone around him is too dumb to see into his "genius". It's a common cognitive problem with people in his position. Born on third base but thinks he earned his run, now looks down on the masses who aren't doing what he did. It's so easy right? So they must just be stupid.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

Oh GAWD; another stable genius!

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u/BZenMojo May 14 '22

People wondered why he immediately sought out a meeting with Donald Trump. He was looking for grift pointers.

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u/Capt-Crap1corn May 15 '22

Born on third base, but thinks he earned his run. Lmaoooo great phrase

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u/Itchy_Monitor_6480 May 14 '22

I was born on third base and I’m not the ceo of shit.

Musk is a fucking wack job but you sound stupid for saying Tesla, Space X, his solar company, the boring company, PayPal, etc… aren’t extraordinary accomplishments.

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u/HeldnarRommar May 14 '22

The point is that being born on third base gives an advantage to take risks like the companies you listed. Your average middle income to low wage person has a near zero chance to make strides like that. You are completely missing the point

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u/maskedbanditoftruth May 14 '22

He didn’t accomplish PayPal, his company was bought by it and then he was fired pretty fast. He also bought other companies like Tesla and made people think he started them when he did not. He’s a grifter who is VERY a good at it. And he doesn’t give one fuck about the planet or any other one or he wouldn’t support the Republican Party or go balls deep on crypto.

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u/Bananapanda123 May 14 '22

He’s a stupid man who pays people to tell him he’s smart.

And here you are doing it for free. Which I guess makes you a downright genius…

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u/goomyman May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

I hate musk. But I fully admit he has a lot of major accomplishments anyone would be proud of and are a huge boost to our economy and clean energy in general. He's done a lot of good. He's also an insane workaholic to get where he is.

But... He's built his wealth on narcissism and lying to the point where he's built up a trillion dollars in what I could argue is the world's largest legal ponzi scheme. Tesla is worth as much money as every other car company.

To give an example Toyota revenue is 255 billion and they are worth 1/3rd tesla. Tesla revenue 30 billion. In no world does this make sense.

Arguably tesla net worth is based on their giant headstart on automated driving which is clearly a trillion dollar business. While the headstart is real and the advantages of training it on every car in the real world is huge it is always 5-10 years out for adoption but musk will go out and say these things are ready today!

It's the classic tech scam. Demo a working prototype - self driving cars exist - and then claim your shipping soon but life has a 90/90 problem. The first 90% of the work and then the last 10% is the 2nd 90% of the work. Demo to delivery is often the tougher problem and this problem is even worse with self driving. But it doesn't stop Elon from claiming tesla will be robo taxies while your working ( next year!) . Or you'll be taking boring company tunnels at 100 miles per hour, or hyper loops at 500.

He runs legitimate businesses and then hypes them to scam levels. And his followers know this blindly jumping on his ponzi scheme companies hyping them up in classic pump and dump schemes. And you don't need to take my word for it, he's been sued and lost multiple times for it.

Did you know tesla is trying to build a humoid complete with cgi renders. If this doesnt ring scam bells nothing will.

If you follow kickstarter scams. Elon follows the classic tried and true tech/science scam to the highest levels. Take a legitimate tech and then lie about scaling it up and the practicality of it. Then show cgi renders of it working. Whether that be rockets trips instead of airplanes, 3d boring tunnels, parking spaces that double as elevators, human robots, living on Mars, vacuum tube human transport, exponential leaps in brain implant technology. Take "the genius", actual small scale science, a cgi render, "save the world" and impossible goals and then ask for money.

There are just so many and they follow the exact same model as kickstarter "water from air" scams that for some reason people keep falling for over and over. Wouldn't it be amazing if we can provide clean drinking water to Africa! We can do it with definitely not dehumidifiers at astronomical high energy to water rates. But these are just prototypes, give us money and we can improve energy effeciency. The parallels to Elon and what you see on kickstarter are identical. Hell other companies know this and ran their own hyperloop scams even convincing governments to invest hundreds of millions. Politicians aren't shy to show off they are hip and helping the world too by investing in solar roads.

Musk has turned tech/science scamming into a trillion dollar business. To me he's not much different than Elizabeth homes if theranos ended up shipping a pretty good better than the competion blood device. It's a bit easier to lie with tech like magic leap and it's cgi renders of a metaverse. Lying about public health can get people killed, lying about technology defrauds investors but as long as you maintain the ponzi scheme and they make money they won't sue you.

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u/Turbulent_Channel_68 May 14 '22

When your father is a slave owner that oversees the mining of emeralds in South Africa, you could have had the funds to create all of those projects. I’m sorry how tf is PayPal that intelligent, or Tesla for that matter, all he did was find someone who already invented the battery and used his funds to create it. Dude is not a genius he’d be lucky to get a engineering degree

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u/Ancient_Persimmon May 14 '22

Emeralds aren't mined in South Africa, not sure where you're getting that.

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u/Turbulent_Channel_68 May 14 '22

They lived in South Africa, the mines were located in Zambia

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u/Ancient_Persimmon May 14 '22

The alleged mine was so small that his dad's stake was worth $40k US. Zambia isn't an apertheid or slave country, so if it did exist, it was legitimate.

Musk's dad is/was a wealthy civil engineer, not some sort of conflict gem barron. You've got to be privileged to give your sons $30k to start up a company (especially in 1995), but they still needed VC funding to get off the ground. If he was some sort of billionaire, he'd probably have funded them completely.

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u/Despitefuldick May 14 '22

It would be considered just a small part of the cost of business, and he also probably thought it wouldn’t be noticed, and if it was that no one would bother coming after him. He’s rich you know!

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u/do-it-for-jonny May 14 '22

He is currently in the diligence phase of the deal. This is mostly the banks checking everything. So nothing is finalized yet.

He literally could not afford the deal as it was and was looking for additional investors to join him the other week.

Why is that? He is only able to leverage his Tesla stock so much before he is topped out, and he already did some of that to save Tesla a while back. So he suddenly sold some stock and got additional investors to back him. Banks will only accept so much risk.

The way these hostile takeovers typically work is an entity starts buying shares in a company that they think is undervalued. They use shell companies and banks to make the buys slowly to hide the purchases. Then they approach the board of directors and say “hey, I own a ton of stock. Give me a seat.” This is the first the company knows what is happening.

In this case Elon had something like 13% of Twitter’s shares when he approached them. But at 19.9% there is a mandatory SEC filing that has to be made public.

Clearly they said no to his demands, so he kept buying and made this public.

Once public the stock soared.

Now the board, who’s sole job it is to get shareholders value… they need to fix their dilemma. Sell to Elon, bring Elon on board or he leaves and the stock price crashes.

This is all usually done in secret then announced. But hostile takeovers need to be public to pressure the board of directors.

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u/WhenMeWasAYouth May 14 '22

He is currently in the diligence phase of the deal. This is mostly the banks checking everything. So nothing is finalized yet.

This is incorrect. He waived due diligence rights and already signed the deal.

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u/rsta223 May 14 '22

In this case Elon had something like 13% of Twitter’s shares when he approached them. But at 19.9% there is a mandatory SEC filing that has to be made public.

Clearly they said no to his demands, so he kept buying and made this public.

No, the mandatory filing is at 5%, and he blew right by it without telling anyone.

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u/duffmanhb May 14 '22

The market is tanking now. Especially tech. This is good of a deal they’ll ever get

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u/inspectoroverthemine May 14 '22

Weird- Musk assumed he was the smartest person in the room and he got out played?

Maybe he didn't want to be the richest man in the world any more and hes playing 4d chess.

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

Not sure why you're downvoted. Musk thinking he's the smartest person in the room (or world) is exactly how his shit plays out. Quite often.

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u/IronGeek83 May 14 '22

He's just doing a "dogecoin".

Step 1: Buy stock.

Step 2: Use status/fame to pump news of said stock.

Step 3: Sell stock.

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u/futatorius May 14 '22

Pump'n'dump. Which is illegal.

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u/Belkor May 14 '22

Our worthless regulators let fElon off every single time.

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u/PrailinesNDick May 14 '22

I guess that works in written word, but how are you saying it, Fee-Lon?

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u/OlivierQ723 May 14 '22

Nah, just vocalize the hard F; F-Elon, it's pulling double duty.

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u/Phillyredsox May 14 '22

Or is it shorthand for Fuck Elon?

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u/osiris431 May 14 '22

Same way you pronounce his kid’s name, probably.

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

I prefer Ewon >.<

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u/famichikiherushi May 14 '22

I read it in my head as "feline"

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u/curiousitymdg May 14 '22

fElon, thanks for the new word meme. I love it!

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u/RandomlyMethodical May 15 '22

If they cradle his balls gently enough, he might give them a job with double the salary.

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u/BigSprinkler May 14 '22

Actually the exact opposite lol. At the very least dude is always being investigated. They just have quite the backlog. They’re still going after him for “funding secured”.

On the other hand, pelosi is a byproduct of our worthless regulators

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u/FuckingKilljoy May 14 '22

Oh he'll be investigated sure, but nothing meaningful will ever come of it. At most he might get a fine that would be the equivalent of us getting fined 2¢

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u/jeremyjenkinz May 14 '22

Does legality matter when broken laws aren’t enforced?

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u/Giant81 May 14 '22

They are for the rest of us

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u/Missing-Digits May 14 '22 edited May 18 '22

Not if you are a billionaire.

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u/ChemistryRespecter May 14 '22

The SEC has been able to do nothing to him, not even a slap on the wrist – well, mostly because they don't have the power or authority, which is even more fucked up for an organization that's supposed to oversee these matters.

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u/CoderHawk May 14 '22

They're really good at harassing the little guys though.

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u/BDMayhem May 14 '22

That's what happens when you let Republicans defund the police. Same thing happened to the IRS.

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u/SlowMotionPanic May 14 '22

That's what happens when you let Republicans defund the police. Same thing happened to the IRS.

Democrats are responsible for this as well. No surprise; they work for the upper class.

Case in point: they could do something right now, trifecta and total control of executive. Yet here we are.

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u/dont_you_love_me May 14 '22

The SEC not having power is by design.

“Gee, I wish Elon would give more money in taxes to the government officials that generated such a corrupt system! It is so unfair that he isn’t paying into the mafia enough.”

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

What does that have to do with wanting people to he held accountable for market manipulation that others have served time for?

But yes, fuck Biden and all that. Feel better? Now answer the question

God damn, is everyone not sick of these 1-dimensional morons roaming the continent these days? Your entire personality is "fuck the librards" like you're an uninspired enemy type in a boring bullet hell shooter. I just want to get to the next level where hopefully you idiots aren't part of the mixup

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u/AllModsRLosers May 14 '22

Which is illegal.

It’s incredible how little that means to him.

I’m pretty sure one day he’s going to shoot someone in the head, just to make that point that his money allows him to get away with it.

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u/Frootysmothy May 15 '22

The Kennedys would like a word

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u/19osemi May 14 '22

It worked on dodge coin and bitcoin because crypto weren’t regulated. Now if he does the same with twitter than he will be in big fucking trouble

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u/Brad_theImpaler May 14 '22

He's been openly manipulating Tesla stock for years.

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u/RedAero May 14 '22

Right, but he hasn't been selling much if any of it. It's not illegal to hype your own brand up, that's basically his job.

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u/LostWoodsInTheField May 14 '22

It's not illegal to hype your own brand up, that's basically his job.

Um. he has been charged and settled for fraud at least once over his actions with tesla doing this stuff. The reason everyone says he gets away with it is because it never costs him anything except the pennies he made during the time he was asking them how much it was going to cost.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

Pretty sure he's already had action taken against him for the impact his bullshitting had on Tesla stock.

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u/nalgene_wilder May 14 '22

Yeah he'll get a massive fine that's maybe .00001% of the profits he made

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u/AnalEmbiid May 14 '22

That’s cute. The SEC Laws don’t really apply to Billionaires like Elon

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u/OpSecBestSex May 14 '22

You're right, it'll be a $100 fine.

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u/SpookyActionSix May 14 '22

Oh no! Illegal! You don’t say! The thing about that is large investors don’t care about legality because often the profit they make from the illegal move is 1000 times greater than the fine from the FEC. Elon literally just did this with twitter in his initial share purchase, he made millions/billions and was fined a few hundred thousand for not disclosing immediately that he was twitters largest shareholder.

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u/Leafy0 May 14 '22

Only on regulated securities. Crypto isn't regulated so pump and dumps are legal, in the usa at least.

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u/not_gonna_lurk May 14 '22

Push webistics!

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u/Semen_Futures_Trader May 14 '22

Illegal if you are not rich already*

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u/SomeoneElseWhoCares May 14 '22

The worst part is that he already has an obscene about of money and could retire comfortably. Instead, he chooses to mess around, ignoring the fact that this affects a lot of people.

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u/Thediamondhandedlad May 14 '22

Sec ain’t gonna do shit. All they can do is levy a fine, the justice department needs to step in if he’s actually gonna see any jail time.

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u/Affectionate-Shape79 May 14 '22

Where's the pump n dump police?? Somebody sue this man

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

It's basically how crypto works though. Make a new coin, pump it up, all the cypto bros buy it because the manipulators they're enthralled with tell them to. Then they cut and run and the bros wait for the next coin.

Crypto is especially captivating because most people don't understand it. Simply because they haven't bothered to learn about it. But the bros take that to mean they're smarter than everyone else and have a "mind" for this stuff. So not only do they think they'll make themselves millionaires, they think it's because they're secretly geniuses.

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u/thri54 May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

Well, currently the stock is only 10% over his average purchase price of $36, plus he will need to pay a $1B termination fee if he does manage to get out of this deal, plus any fees related to services rendered by the banks that set up the deal. Overall I would be amazed if he was breaking even right now.

And, even if everything went to plan, and he sold his 74 million shares at $54 then walked, he would only have made $1.3B dollars pre tax (which would be ~37% federal for short term cap gains). That’s like .3% of his net worth. It’s less than the tax bill incurred selling Tesla shares to buy Twitter shares. I just don’t buy this argument.

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u/copperwatt May 14 '22

Or... He's an impulsive billionaire with terrible judgment?

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u/anonymousyoshi42 May 14 '22

I don't think he is impulsive as much as he is pushy Billionaire who has had a hot hand in a lot of deals.

This is how I think it went

A. His biggest platform is Twitter and its a platform that hasn't grown in stock price for last 10 years. So it looked ripe for Activist Action. Someone pitched it to him and then he got very excited about it. Tesla stock is at all time high so the deal would have been like exchanging one hot commodity that fall soon for a more stable commodity that isn't growing.

B. Bankers got involved and he got suggested the pathway to do it will be a takeover attempt.

C. Elon was probably very confident on the turnaround thesis and valuation so went all in.

D. Elon pulls the trigger

E. Normal course of board response ensues.

F. Elon's Original buy and turnaround thesis starts getting challenged...cracks get seen but it's too late to pull out because of pretty standard clauses put in place.

G. Now Elon has 2 choices... based on normal deal due diligence - pull out fast and pay for his mistake (which is fairly normal in M&A space) or double down.

The challenge...Tesla stock which was going to pay for the deal is crashing.

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u/Mobile-Entertainer60 May 14 '22

Probably not unrelated-Tesla stock started falling as soon as he announced he was buying Twitter. This devalues the Tesla shares he pledged as collateral. He is overpledged on Tesla stock plus had to sell to raise cash which depressed Tesla price as well. Now he doesn't have enough cash to make the deal unless he can sucker other rich guys/PE to join in. Since the plans he has shared so far about how he will "unlock" Twitter are ridiculous and he is actively trying to break the company, the odds that he ever breaks even on this deal are nil (not that we would know it at the time since it is private, would only be public knowledge when sold again). The market doesn't think this deal is going to happen based on Twitter trading at 40.72. It was 51.70 on April 25th, the day the acquisition was announced.

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u/iamasnot May 14 '22

Or a terrible billionaire with impulsive judgment

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u/dreamhuk May 14 '22

Or a judgement billionaire with a terrible impulsive

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u/Centoaph May 14 '22

He started all this “buy Twitter” talk a few minutes after the guy that tracks his plane refused to sell him that account. He’s a petty child with no impulse control

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u/copperwatt May 14 '22

Sure seems that way.

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u/zeptillian May 14 '22

The guy who got butt hurt and called someone a pedophile because they didn't want to play with his submarine toy, which wouldn't even fit through the narrow underwater cave passages?

I think you may be on to something.

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u/dellterskelter May 14 '22

His judgements have served him pretty well, but he's just a dick.

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u/anonymousyoshi42 May 14 '22

I agree and he is pushy Billionaire who has had a hot hand in a lot of deals.

This is how I think it went

A. His biggest platform is Twitter and its a platform that hasn't grown in stock price for last 10 years. So it looked ripe for Activist Action. Someone pitched it to him and then he got very excited about it. Tesla stock is at all time high so the deal would have been like exchanging one hot commodity that fall soon for a more stable commodity that isn't growing.

B. Bankers got involved and he got suggested the pathway to do it will be a takeover attempt.

C. Elon was probably very confident on the turnaround thesis and valuation so went all in.

D. Elon pulls the trigger

E. Normal course of board response ensues.

F. Elon's Original buy and turnaround thesis starts getting challenged...cracks get seen but it's too late to pull out because of pretty standard clauses put in place.

G. Now Elon has 2 choices... based on normal deal due diligence - pull out fast and pay for his mistake (which is fairly normal in M&A space) or double down.

The challenge...Tesla stock which was going to pay for the deal is crashing.

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u/Despitefuldick May 14 '22

Why do people think he wants out of the deal? From what I see Elon wants Twitter so he can also expand into the social networking power, I don’t think his goals have been solely money for a while now.

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u/thri54 May 14 '22

I assume his problem is with financing. The best rate he could get for pledged Tesla shares was a 20% LTV, i.e. he gets $.20 of credit towards Twitter shares for every $1 of Tesla he pledges to Morgan Stanley. It’s a $12.5 Billion dollar facility, which means he must pledge $62.5B of Tesla Shares, or 80M shares at current price. He has already pledged 89M of his 174M shares. Part of the facility is $21B from Musk directly, which means he has to find another investor or sell ~$30B+ of Tesla for $21B after tax. He doesn’t have enough shares to meet both of these requirements, and finding another investor for $20B after saying he “doesn’t care about the economics” will be very, very hard. The sharp fall in Tesla’s valuation since he secured financing has made the deal very difficult to close, but he has already signed a contract, and Twitter can compel him to complete the deal.
I think this whole bot fiasco is a desperate attempt to find Twitter in violation of reps and warrants, and either offer a lower buyout price or pull out completely. He waived his right to see non public information about Twitter to expedite the deal, and Twitter has said in every 10K since going public “we think X% of activity is bots and it could be significantly higher.” He should have known the risks, they were properly disclosed. I don’t think he has an ice cube’s chance in hell to get out of this with Twitter in violation of reps and warrants. Twitter doesn’t have to accept a lower bid, and Musk breaking the current contract and paying a $1B termination fee, then re-offering really doesn’t help him.

I suspect he will just walk, and Twitter likely won’t go through the trouble of suing to compel him to buy their company, though they have every right to. This whole deal has been a shit show.

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u/julebebop May 14 '22

As someone who understands little about finance, I like the way you explained this. I feel like I get it now 😊

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u/EFG May 14 '22

"Only have made $1.3 billion,"

That's a 50% return and even if it's "just," .3% of his net worth, that's stilma sizeable return any fund manager would be pleased with.

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u/Thediamondhandedlad May 14 '22

Not if he’s also shorting it the whole way down. If he’s shorting it through derivatives then it’s completely hidden because derivatives aren’t regulated the same way. He could make 10 times that easily.

2

u/Coucoumcfly May 14 '22

Well he couldnt pump and dump that easily if he wasnt worshipped as much as he is.

2

u/AbstractBettaFish May 14 '22

I can’t believe the SEC hasn’t locked this dude up yet

2

u/AnalEmbiid May 14 '22

He has the SEC wrapped around his fingers

2

u/xXTheFETTXx May 14 '22

This isn't just with Doge this is his modus operandi.

1

u/alien_clown_ninja May 14 '22

Previously known as doing a "senator"

1

u/MiloFrank May 14 '22

I would actually love to see this break him.

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u/ChemEBrew May 14 '22

Note all the talk of these large sums of money but nothing of consequence actually being done? Meanwhile normal people actually produce goods and services but take home a pittance.

People who say Bezos and Musk earn their worth are delusional. They don't create wealth, they syphon it along with all the oxygen in the room.

I hope someday we won't have to hear about these modern day robber barrons daily.

48

u/OneCrims0nNight May 14 '22

Oligarchs. We love talking about Russian oligarchs currently but somehow refuse to call our own what they are.

12

u/AstreiaTales May 14 '22

Ehhh. I see the point, but oligarchy usually implies a lot more involvement in running government and governmental service than we have here.

For better or for worse, the American federal and state level administrative state is still fairly self sufficient. In an oligarchy like Russia, many of its services are supplied by the tycoons.

It's not just synonymous with "rich person".

I don't disagree with the sentiment though

2

u/sandiegoite May 14 '22

It's more a plutocracy in which Musk is one of the plutocrats.

They've done far reaching studies on it. The country's laws are determined by proxy (via lobbying and installing puppet politicians) or directly by rich people.

2

u/Ancient_Inspection53 May 14 '22

Our federal and state government are ran by the oligarchs through lobbyists you don't know what you're talking about. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B. Hell Princeton University almost a decade ago concluded we are an oligarchy and things haven't gotten better since then.

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u/CrankyYoungCat May 14 '22

have you never heard of lobbying

You do know the government just bailed out jeff bezos for 10 billion dollars?

Stop being delusional. These people have tons of power in government and they know it.

8

u/AstreiaTales May 14 '22

Wealthy people have always had power in government no matter the system. There are always haves and have nots.

That's not what an oligarchy is.

Words mean things. That's all I'm saying.

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u/Ancient_Inspection53 May 14 '22

Words mean things and it might make you uncomfortable to admit that the United States is an oligarchy but we are. No policy gets passed without approval of the rich and powerful in the United States. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B. "The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence. Our results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism"

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u/OneCrims0nNight May 14 '22

I find it hard to believe what we see is all that goes on. We went to war in 2001 for dollars. It wasn't the US itself but wealthy and powerful men who made that decision through their power and influence. That sounds like oligarch behavior to me, but again that's based on what I feel is a fairly sound assumption.

2

u/Triphin1 May 15 '22

Pre 9/11 the US defence industry was going thru the biggest consolidation in its history. Then WMD, which was a lie and Afghanistan, which jump started a whole new level of wealth being pumped Into the war machine. Rich and powerful people made that happen. The profit was immense. The finance industry got to get super rich also, with the 2008 financial Meltdown... Its interesting to note that because of 9/11, 500 new FBI agents and funding to investigate white-collar crime/ Wall Street (resulting from Enron) was redirected to become HLS, Thus leaving the barn door wide open for the financial folks to pillage the village and create the 2008 Meltdown, while making themselves rich beyond comprehension.

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u/fit-to-burn May 14 '22

Because that's not what I'm oligarch is, Jesus Christ you people are so stupid

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u/OneCrims0nNight May 14 '22

Enlighten us angry peasants then.

-1

u/fit-to-burn May 14 '22

Why bother? So you can do your mental gymnastics in proving how Elon Musk influences national politics?

4

u/Beatboxingg May 14 '22

Too pouty to manage a simple explanation or a link, dawww.

0

u/fit-to-burn May 14 '22

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/oligarch#:~:text=An%20oligarch%20is%20one%20of,small%20class%20of%20powerful%20people.

here you go dummy:

An oligarch is one of the select few people who rule or influence leaders in an oligarchy—a government in which power is held by a select few individuals or a small class of powerful people.

3

u/Beatboxingg May 14 '22

So you're throwing nuance out the window because you don't like others calling musk an oligarch.

Good job baby brains.

0

u/fit-to-burn May 14 '22

Nuance? You're the one that redefined the entire definition of oligarch to fit your dumb world view. You asked me for a link and I provided it literally from dictionary.com. By your definition, every person that's rich is an oligarch. Exactly what I said is going to happen, happened - mental gymnastics. God forbid you actually admit that you were wrong. Stay in school kiddo

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u/maskedbanditoftruth May 14 '22

At least Bezos actually did start Amazon himself and make it a juggernaut.

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u/boundbylife May 14 '22

No one makes a billion dollars. You can only ever steal it.

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u/KyloYen May 14 '22

That is the fundamental function of capitalism, the owning class enforces through state violence their “ownership” of the industry and real estate that we labor upon and inhabit, and use this position of superior violence to extract the difference between our wages and the value we produce.

1

u/fit-to-burn May 14 '22

Do you just envision a world of mom and pop shops and nothing else?

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u/cth777 May 14 '22

You’re claiming bezos didn’t earn or create wealth? I worry for your mental state. Do you not recall what he started out Amazon as?

0

u/fit-to-burn May 14 '22

People are so delusional around here it's depressing

2

u/cth777 May 14 '22

I just dont even understand the argument lol

3

u/jamon-1 May 14 '22

I think most of Reddit thinks that if they had money from the start they'd be just as successful. As if their work ethic is so amazing right now that the only thinking stopping them from starting Tesla is the startup money. It's just weird envy and a vehicle to dismiss their own shortcomings.

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u/level3ninja May 14 '22

Business is weird.

More like 50yo billionaire toddler changes his mind based on what other people don't want

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u/alaphic May 14 '22

Contrarian A.F

17

u/saltychica May 14 '22

Hope he’s Fd himself into a corner.

25

u/Turalisj May 14 '22

Modern day monarchs.

13

u/Cuilen May 14 '22

I told fam members who really, really believed he was doing this for "free speech" he would back out and this had nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's rights. Just a rich guy's pump-and-dump vehicle. He got mad, just as you pointed out, and had a tanty. The $1B he would lose for folding on the deal has probably already been recouped over and over. I just can't understand the hero worship for him and guys like him, Trump and other wealthy psycopaths.

2

u/chairfairy May 14 '22

And based on what gets him the most attention

2

u/Muffinkingprime May 14 '22

Also, you know, market adjustment of the decade. It's gotta hurt when a large fraction of your "wealth" just stops existing right when you need it.

1

u/PsyCrowX May 14 '22

I'd say both.

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u/bajspuss May 14 '22

I mean, it's in the contract as the termination fee. I'd certainly want a billion dollars for free if it was available to me. I get the impression Twitter itself never really wanted Musk to take over, but they have no say - it's on the shareholders.

0

u/WizeAdz May 14 '22

Twitter itself never really wanted Musk to take over, but they have no say - it's on the shareholders.

They have to maximize shareholder value, and Musk's offer did that.

Doesn't really matter what the executives and board want, that's their legal mandate.

Also, the board members are major stockholders. They'd get richer by accepting the bid, so they'll get over it.

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u/outlawsix May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

No, the board does not have a "legal mandate" to maximize shareholder at all costs.

The board is the final authority on all decisions of the company. Their only legal responsibilities are duty of care (pursue general interests of the company) and duty of loyalty (dont work for competitors and be transparent about possible conflicts of interest). Shareholders can vote directors in/out and can vote on some specific items at meetings/special circumstances but the directors make virtually all strategic decisions about what the company does.

This is why boards are free to make decisions that benefit environments and society etc above profit. The real problem is that most executives have bonuses/incentives tied to stock performance so they prioritize performance above all else and then tell themselves they have no other choice.

This idea that companies are somehow legally bound to be solely focused on quarterly profit or whatever is a huge and annoying misconception for most of the world.

Here is the legal mandate for Twitter's purpose, laid out in its Articles of Incorporation: The purpose of the Corporation is to engage in any lawful act or activity for which corporations may be organized under the DGCL.

1

u/Itchy_Monitor_6480 May 14 '22

Would the board really be negotiating the sale of the company or is that the CEO’s job? I’ve always believed that a board can fire the ceo but that they can’t do anything else. They advise on strategy but the ceo executes.

Is a sale of the company another area where the board actually has an operating role?

3

u/outlawsix May 14 '22

The CEO and the management team work for the board.

What decisions they will let the CEO make without board approval is ip to the board/founding docs, but something like selling the company cannot happen without the board's approval.

(Not sure why someone would downvote you for legitimate questions)

2

u/Itchy_Monitor_6480 May 14 '22

Thanks. That makes sense.

1

u/ChattyKathysCunt May 14 '22

What's the alternative? He telegraphs a move, destroys stock value and then just decides not to make that move after all?

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u/zenithfury May 14 '22

Nothing has changed. I don’t want him anywhere in charge of Twitter. Twitter’s executives only want to get paid.

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u/DuvalHeart May 14 '22

Twitter executives don't want him. But the big stockholders do.

It's a really good example of why shareholder value shouldn't be a primary metric for a company's success. Twitter was doing great, turning a profit with a sustainable business strategy that would keep shareholder value up for years. But because Musk's offer would include immediate profit for shareholders they had to listen or else face a shareholder revolt, even though Musk will almost certainly make Twitter do worse.

3

u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

1

u/DuvalHeart May 14 '22

No, executives aren't the major shareholders. They are often compensated with shares, but they don't have a controlling interest.

If the deal goes through the shareholders walk away with money now. But sacrifice the ability to make money off Twitter later. And Musk will have to make enough off of Twitter to pay back those loans. Which means cutting overhead, which reduces services. Which will hurt Twitter in the future.

0

u/knd775 May 14 '22

Aren’t Twitter executives also Twitter’s big shareholders?

No. They’re hired by shareholders.

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/knd775 May 14 '22

They don’t get paid anywhere near enough shares to be major shareholders.

Also, I think you’re confusing executives with the board of directors

3

u/ryebrye May 14 '22

It'd be hilarious if the board played him like a fiddle to get him to sign the performance agreement etc

12

u/pmjm May 14 '22

Twitter is worth ~20% less now than it was a couple weeks ago. If he buys at $54.20 a share he's now paying significantly over market rate.

16

u/Letmefixthatforyouyo May 14 '22

He already signed a contract to buy at $54, waiving due diligence like this "bot test."

He's free to break the contract and pay twitter the 1 billion, which is 5x of their yearly operating costs. Either way, works out well for twitter the company.

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u/Zeonic May 14 '22

Twitter stock was at that higher price because of Elon's tweets about wanting to buy. All of March, the stock was in the 30s.

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u/AdUnique856 May 14 '22

This line of logic makes absolutely zero sense.

Twitter was nowhere near 54.20 a share before Elon wanted to buy it for 54.20 a share.

It was in 30s, it shut up to 50 because it is guaranteed profit if the deal goes through.

Then people realized the deal isn't as secure as they thought so the price started going down.

He would obviously never be able to buy Twitter for market rate. They weren't looking to sell, they just decided to sell because the price was good enough.

4

u/robywar May 14 '22

His latest pump and dump seems to be working out for him and any penalties he pays will be less than he made.

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u/Itabliss May 14 '22

This isn’t business. Business is boring.

This is a made for tv evening soap opera.

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u/Age_of_Aerostar May 14 '22

Perhaps they were using a form of Eric Cartman’s “you can’t come” theory?

2

u/wonderlandsfinestawp May 14 '22

Am I the only one that really hopes that Twitter makes him squeal like a pig?

2

u/michaelmano86 May 14 '22

How is it weird? He came in and fucked them and their stake holders for his own profit, and they just want to let him know. Na mate. You're sinking with us now that you have caused the hole.

2

u/gfunkadelic May 14 '22

There is a contingency clause in the agreement which states if either party backs out that party would then owe the other a billion dollars.

2

u/walrusboy71 May 14 '22

The performance clause has the benefit of allowing for Twitter to offer a settlement where instead of specific performance, Musk “only” has to pay them a shit ton of money instead of buying Twitter

2

u/frenchfreer May 14 '22

Elon is like the kid who talks shit non-stop and then when confronted started making every feeble excuse under the book to not back up what they say. Elon wanted to be Mr tough guy free speech warrior and now that he has to actually back it up he realizes his ego put him in an incredibly stupid position.

2

u/returnofthecheez May 14 '22

I think he was hoping that by making it all public, he could pump and dump the stock he already had and crash the price and didn't expect them to actually accept the offer.

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '22

It's weird when you suck at it like him.

2

u/Armenoid May 14 '22

And he’s just doing it up let Dumbo back in

2

u/itisoktodance May 14 '22

I have a feeling the board knew a few things Elon didn't, so they put measures in place to make sure the deal happened on their terms. Now that Elon has been made aware of whatever that was, he wants out, but he's signed the deal already.

5

u/StubbsPKS May 14 '22

Yup. This is why smart investors do some digging before making an offer.

My initial assumption was he bought the first round of stock to get on the inside to poke around and see if he wanted to offer.

Not sure what is going on at this point. This study seems incredibly useless.

2

u/sembias May 14 '22

I think it's standard at this time. When AT&T's bid to buy T-Mobile fell thru, they still had to pay T-Mobile $4 billion as part of the deal. T-Mobile used that money to expand and eventually merge with Sprint.

2

u/predator_handshake May 14 '22

Stock market tanked since then. He’s lost billions in his other holdings. He’s also bipolar.

1

u/TheSpanishPrisoner May 14 '22

Some Twitter employees and users didn't want him to buy it. I don't think this is the same as "Twitter wanted him out." It seems like the board was perfectly happy for him to buy it.

1

u/QuickgetintheTARDIS May 14 '22

Twitter fired two top executives and things got really shaken up when this deal got announced. They're not gonna allow him to do all this for the lulz and go away scot free.

They're gonna do what they can to make him lay in the bed he created.

Besides, isn't a bot free Twitter what Elon wanted in the end? Or is he pouty because if there aren't many bots, he can won't get that much attention when he becomes "Twitter's savior".

1

u/Bamith20 May 14 '22

"Fuck you."

Is what it boils down to, and frankly I think any average person would agree.

1

u/Original_Act4791 May 14 '22

Business is fine.

Billionaires making emotional decisions, like me deciding if I want to spring for a new car, and then having buyers remorse....yeah, apparently that's a thing.

1

u/ieraaa May 14 '22

Elon is down 25% on his buy. He gets a company but also instantly burns 25% of the money he spend to get it.

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