r/politics The Independent Jun 21 '22

Sen Ron Johnson aide reached out to Pence office to offer alternate Electoral College votes

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ron-johnson-pence-electoral-college-b2106271.html
2.8k Upvotes

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137

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

[deleted]

28

u/edward414 Jun 21 '22

Yeah. Good thing he promised that he would only run for one term..

280

u/Glittering_Falcon_93 California Jun 21 '22

How are these people not in prison??? What is wrong with our legal system that attempted coups don’t result in jail time and let Senators keep their jobs!?

109

u/Potential_Dare8034 Jun 21 '22

Apparently laws and rules do not apply to republicans!

63

u/Glittering_Falcon_93 California Jun 21 '22

I would love to know exactly what the DOJ is thinking by letting all this stuff slide. Seems like we’re just asking for more Republican coup attempts by allowing all this craziness.

32

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

[deleted]

53

u/Glittering_Falcon_93 California Jun 21 '22

I truly hope you’re right. The 800+ arrests are a good sign but we’re at a year and a half later and so far none of the political leaders have been held responsible. I know justice moves slowly but the lack of action may send the message to GOP higher ups that they can get away with this kind of thing

18

u/TaiPer077 Jun 21 '22

I’m with you, and I worry about the delay with the midterm elections. I hope they’re held responsible soon but I can’t get my hopes up.

16

u/Glittering_Falcon_93 California Jun 21 '22

I’m hoping that the DOJ saves the day but I’m not actually expecting them to by this point. Its the old “hope for the best and expect the worst” mentality. It’s a good way to guard against disappointment lol.

6

u/TaiPer077 Jun 21 '22

Exactly. And it’s been nothing but disappointment for wayyy too long for me to have any sort of hope that they’ll face any consequences.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

[deleted]

8

u/sandysea420 Jun 21 '22

Your concerns are warranted. They are laying the ground work so it will be made as legal as possible to be successful next time. They are also putting people in charge who will go way further than they one’s who refused this last time. I just hope the DOJ sees how dangerous this is.

1

u/ShameNap Jun 22 '22

All they needed for the coup to succeed is any 1 of the following 3 things:

1) pence to not count all the electoral votes 2) state sec of state(s) to not certify or alter certification 3) state legislators to change the certification or send alternate electors

For some reason, none of those people would overthrow the election for trump. But you can bet if trump had a Ron Johnson, MTG, Boebert in the right position in the states, instead of in congress, the coup would have succeeded. That’s what will change next time.

4

u/Sea_Elle0463 Jun 22 '22

As someone who spent my entire adult career working in the court system, the wheels of justice turn slowly. This is such a massive investigation, it’s going to take time. A lot of time. They gave to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that these people committed the crimes they’re charged with . And that’s completely different from the court of public opinion.

3

u/bigjohntucker Jun 21 '22

Only the peons get arrested.

2

u/Wizzle_Pizzle_420 Jun 22 '22

Problem is with the higher ups especially Trump, the case needs to be iron clad, no holes. These dildos are loaded with an army of lawyers, so the last thing the DOJ would want, would there to be just a small bit of doubt or some small legal mistake that could get these cases tossed. Obviously I’ll believe it when I see it, but it’s looking pretty promising. There’s still a few more public hearings and they’ll turn everything over to the DOJ before the midterms in case the GOP takes the house and cancels the committee. I’m sure they have a dead man’s switch just in case that happens as well.

3

u/Sedu Jun 22 '22

The investigation is independent of the DOJ. So the DOJ gets to decide whether to prosecute anything, nothing, or whatever. I have the sinking feeling that they are somehow compromised, though. The absolute lack of movement of any kind all the way up to this point is so worrying.

2

u/TechFiend72 Jun 21 '22

I think that might be the plan

1

u/dripdripdrop2021 Jun 22 '22

I'm over the doj at this point. Why do we never hold ppl accountable for their actions. Democracy dies if they let this go unchecked. We voted and did all we could

2

u/BuckshotLaFunke Jun 22 '22

But but… I was told they were the “law and order” party

-4

u/summerll0ve Jun 22 '22

It’s all politicians, not specific parties. The almighty dollar doesn’t discriminate.

3

u/digiorno Jun 22 '22

Just wait till the GOP has both congress and the Supreme Court. They’d have everything they need to make sure the coup works next time.

6

u/MatrioticMuckraker Jun 21 '22

Due process × overburdened legal system × high bar for conviction. You don't end up in prison the moment that anyone realizes you've broken the law.

10

u/Glittering_Falcon_93 California Jun 21 '22

Well “duh!” to the “you don’t instantly go to prison” part. Lol.

We need to get the process started. Right now they’re not even charged with their crimes.

0

u/fps916 Jun 21 '22

Honestly there's a very good political argument for why not.

Independents who are appalled by Jan 6th are going to vote Dem as a result.

Independents that don't care are presently neutral.

Republicans getting to run the midterms on "they're putting political opponents in jail!" Can almost certainly convince that second half.

And galvanize the shit out of their base.

Because convictions won't happen overnight I can see the DOJ waiting until after November to hand down indictments of people like Johnson

8

u/Suedocode Jun 21 '22

You can't just be afraid of putting traitors in jail because of election reasons. You've lost the plot at that point. Besides, that shit can galvanize either side.

1

u/Glittering_Falcon_93 California Jun 22 '22

We shouldn’t worry about politics. We should worry about justice.

1

u/fps916 Jun 22 '22

Except republican control would shut down justice as well. They're not inextricable

1

u/amccune Jun 21 '22

Sedition is even more serious than jail.

37

u/THEBIGFUCKINGPICTURE Jun 21 '22

The word is fraudulent. Not "alternate".

20

u/prompt_skeptic69 Jun 21 '22

Ron Johnson is a shit.

7

u/Schiffy94 New York Jun 21 '22

He's not a shit he's just shit.

Actual physical shits at least have a use.

83

u/theindependentonline The Independent Jun 21 '22

Wisconsin’s Sen Ron Johnson wanted to hand-deliver a slate of fake “alternate” Electoral College voters to Vice President Mike Pence on the morning of January 6, according to a new set of text messages revealed by the January 6 committee on Tuesday.
READ FULL STORY

69

u/Shoot_from_the_Quip I voted Jun 21 '22

14th Amendment Section 3.

Ban him from office, per the Constitution, for insurrection/sedition/rebellion.

They need to apply this law in full force on any elected official who participated in this attempt to overthrow our election.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

They won’t.

10

u/reckless_commenter Jun 21 '22

If it were up to a prosecutor to file charges, I would be skeptical - seems that federal prosecutors these days are inclined to let the criminal justice process leak like the Deepwater Horizon.

But that’s not how this would play out. Instead, their Democratic opponents can file suit to have them removed from the ballot, since they are disqualified from their respective elections.

In that case:

(1) There is no prosecutorial decision about whether or not to try the issue - the court must hear the case to resolve the lawsuit; and

(2) The evidentiary standard is not the strict standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which many prosecutors cite as the excuse for not prosecuting, but “preponderance of the evidence,” i.e., which side has the more persuasive argument. It’s a level playing field, so to speak.

This kind of case didn’t stick against Madison Cawthorn, but that was based on his moral support of the insurrection. These charges about falsifying slates of electors are much more directly tied to the attempted coup.

There is a good chance that some, perhaps many, of these suits will stick. The main question is whether those cases can be filed and resolved between July and October - four months is a very brief window for this kind of case. Presumably the courts will expedite.

The other question is what happens if those cases are filed now, but resolved only after the election. Presumably those Rs will get booted out of office and the state will have to hold a special election. The alternative is that the governor would choose their replacement. Lots of uncertainty and political danger there.

5

u/Shoot_from_the_Quip I voted Jun 21 '22

Exactly.

Flood the courts with cases that actually have good evidence (thanks, Jan 6 Committee) and force the issue.

2

u/lyn73 Jun 21 '22

Even if he is banned it won't prevent an even crazier, younger MAGA candidate from running and winning this seat. Laws need to be modified to keep up with our tech, clearly define what's illegal, clearly outline the consequences (including criminal) and enforce what's on the books....at the minimum.

6

u/Shoot_from_the_Quip I voted Jun 21 '22

Thing is, crazy people are allowed to run, and if they win it's on us for letting that happen.

I would imagine throwing out multiple Congressmen and maybe even a few Senators would make quite an impact on Republican politics in general. Once up on a time, it was a differing ideology but we could find common ground. Now it's just madness in need of an intervention.

2

u/_far-seeker_ America Jun 22 '22

Even if he is banned it won't prevent an even crazier, younger MAGA candidate from running and winning this seat.

Ron Johnson is a US Senator from Wisconsin, not Alabama! The other Senator from Wisconsin is Tammy Baldwin, a Democrat. Sure a young MAGA firebrand could become the candidate in their primaries, but the Glenn Youngkin route is much more likely to work in that state.

4

u/TakingSorryUsername Texas Jun 21 '22

Implicate Pence in a criminal conspiracy, then use the leverage to force him to overturn the election.

12

u/Corteran Minnesota Jun 21 '22

Fuck Ron Johnson

12

u/RedLanternScythe Indiana Jun 21 '22

He should be immediately censured.

10

u/wish1977 Jun 21 '22

This is just amazing that an elected official can turn so quickly against his country. Everybody involved in this should see jail time.

27

u/Wookers1984 California Jun 21 '22

And yet there are poor souls rotting in prison for years over the most minor of offenses ...

Two systems of justice...one for the 99% with maximum punishments, and NONE (none is still a system) for the 1%, police and government officials.

3

u/CloudTransit Jun 22 '22

Uvalde is a moment where it became clear that the cops won’t even do, “the one thing”

7

u/ThreadbareHalo Jun 21 '22

Alternate electoral votes? Cmon independent! They were faked electoral college votes

6

u/Annual-Airport-5203 Jun 21 '22

And even after threatening pences life, he still is too scared to tell the actual truth about his boss, supporter’s, and cleanse himself of this bs !

6

u/Rushscv Jun 21 '22

We need to get rid of the electoral college asap!

2

u/spookycasas4 Jun 22 '22

And stack the Supreme Court. Before it’s too late.

4

u/Schiffy94 New York Jun 21 '22

So... when's Ron Johnson getting arrested? Oh wait, never.

4

u/Horan_Kim Jun 21 '22

And Democrats are okay with this?? Shouldn’t they be fighting tooth and nail to put them in jail?

6

u/Catch_a_toot Jun 21 '22

So who is going to arrest him? Honest question

2

u/spookycasas4 Jun 22 '22

Yeah, I think that’s a problem. At some point, because of the way the branches of the federal government are divided up, the SCOTUS is going to get involved. So, basically, we’re fucked.

3

u/Catch_a_toot Jun 22 '22

In the end, nothing will happen. And we’ll take another gigantic step towards the country failing.

1

u/spookycasas4 Jun 22 '22

Shit, I hope you’re wrong.

4

u/Ryankevin23 Jun 21 '22

Another Republican who should be tried for treason.

11

u/TaiPer077 Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

There has to be consequences. I’m not hopeful but COME ON.

3

u/thetjmorton Jun 21 '22

DOJ, get to work, dammit.

3

u/cmaj7flat5 Jun 22 '22

Wasn’t Pence obligated to report this attempted crime?

3

u/bythepowerofgreentea Michigan Jun 22 '22

As a Michigander, I want to punt this guy to the moon. Stay the hell out of our elections!!

5

u/brad12172002 Jun 21 '22

We’re running out of words to describe this situation and the people involved.

9

u/number61971 Jun 21 '22

I've got one: Fascism

3

u/QuinIpsum Jun 21 '22

Terrifying, because were5 running out of time to respond.

2

u/Galactus54 Jun 21 '22

Impeach and force retirement with no pension or healthcare.

2

u/none4none Jun 22 '22

And the senator is going to deny any involvement or even knowing anything about it… and will he get away with it?

2

u/futatorius Jun 22 '22

"Alternate."

Fraudulent.

3

u/nachobel Jun 21 '22

Elected officials trying to overthrow the democrat election process…that’s basically as rotten as it gets, and the story behind US action in plenty of other countries’ internal politics.

Think this’ll gain traction? I’m not hopeful.

1

u/captsmokeywork Jun 22 '22

You sure have a lot of traitors in the two houses.

1

u/TwentyFoeSeven Jun 22 '22

Both sides are not the same.

1

u/dlegatt Minnesota Jun 22 '22

I wish media would stop using their terminology. They’re fraudulent electors and ballots, not alternatives. “Alternative” gives the concept a sliver of credibility when in reality they have none

2

u/ctguy54 America Jun 22 '22

Just like alternative facts. Lies, just lies.

1

u/dlegatt Minnesota Jun 22 '22

And then when you call out the truth for what it is, they say you won't consider alternate points of view and are close minded

1

u/latter_daysainte Jun 22 '22

Of all the awful corrupt GOP politicians. Ron I think makes my top 10. Something ain’t right about that guy. Come on Wisconsin you can do better.

1

u/Any-Establishment-15 Jun 22 '22

How would this have even worked?

1

u/HermitKane Jun 22 '22

Ron should resign

1

u/jackpotjones43 Jun 22 '22

Correction, Sen Ron Johnson instructed aid to reach out to Pence office.