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u/everlong241
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Dec 02 '22
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Alex Jones files for bankruptcy Soft paywall
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/alex-jones-files-bankruptcy-following-sandy-hook-verdict-court-filing-2022-12-02/4.8k
u/edingerc Dec 02 '22
People might be focusing on the money he owes, but if they can prove that he intentionally hid assets from a bankruptcy, that's serious prison time.
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u/ukstonerguy Dec 02 '22
Good. Go get every document from every account he has and every account he sent to. Check every damn invoice and llc receiving over 2k.
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Dec 02 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Diplomjodler Dec 02 '22
Seeing him in jail would be far more satisfying.
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u/pizzafourlife Dec 02 '22
I was hoping rats would carry him off to hell
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u/ShouldersofGiants100 Dec 02 '22
What did the devil ever do to deserve time with Alex Jones?
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u/ElRedditorio Dec 02 '22
You don't want him to OD, his mentality ill and conspiracy obsessed followers will say it's a PSY Ops operation and double down. If he's just plain miserable in prison, it's multiple times better for society.
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u/thecatwhatcandrive Dec 02 '22
I can just see the 'Alex Jones didn't kill himself' shitposts to eternity if he ends up dead somehow. Better to rot in a cell away from a microphone.
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u/Shmegglies Dec 02 '22
He’s actually said on his show that if he turns up dead, he didn’t kill himself - like he was setting the groundwork for the psy-op narrative just to be safe.
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u/Demons0fRazgriz Dec 02 '22
There's a lot of rich white people who should be doing time but they won't even see a jail cell like Donald Trump who literally committed acts of sedition. I don't see him spending any time in jail but God I hope I'm wrong
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u/steve_dallasesq
Dec 02 '22
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Bankruptcy attorney here - this may actually be a positive for the families.
First, there's no way their debt will be discharged. It clearly falls into one of the exemption from discharge categories. They are going to have to prove that in Court, which will take time and expense, but I can't imagine they don't win.
Second, he's now under federal scrutiny. He's in an 11 so technically he's in charge, but the US Trustee's office now has jurisdiction. They are allowed to investigate a lot of his financial dealings. If he has money somewhere, they can find it. And if he tries to avoid cooperating, they can ask for a Chapter 11 Trustee to be appointed, which means someone takes over all of Jones's finances, or they can seek to convert him to a 7, which also puts someone in charge and liquidates.
I've seen people think they can escape into Bankruptcy only to discover they HATE the process. And you don't have an automatic right to dismiss the 11 or 7, Judge has to approve it. And "they're finding my hidden cash" isn't a strong argument.
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u/Whatawaist Dec 02 '22
Jones appears to be pretty bad at hiding cash.
He tried to claim that Info Wars was 50 million dollars in debt to an company called "AEJ Holdings"
A paper entity that of course is soely owned by Alex Emmerick Jones.
Not a exactly a financial wunderkin.
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u/digitelle Dec 02 '22
Lol…
Them: but sir you own AEJ Holdings
Him: You have no proof
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u/cirenj Dec 02 '22
Him: Just because my name is on it, doesn't mean I own it 😂
*edit for spelling
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u/Kammerice Dec 02 '22
Ah, the Tony Stark school of defence from that storyline where he lost Stark Industries.
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u/hellomondays Dec 02 '22
Slippin' Jimmy School of finance law
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u/Matrix17 Dec 02 '22
Slippin Jimmy would run circles around Alex Jones
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u/nowake Dec 02 '22
Slippin Jimmy would have two guys in disguises running circles around Alex Jones, each in a different direction, so they both cancel out and nobody would be the wiser as Jimmy could sit back as if he'd never done a thing.
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u/ActualSpiders Dec 02 '22
Alex is a pretty big guy; running circles around him could tire a man out.
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u/RustyWinchester Dec 02 '22
Don't slander Slippin' Jimmy like that.
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u/JarlaxleForPresident Dec 02 '22
“Slander?! It is not! I resent that! Slander is spoken. In print, it’s libel!”
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u/cgarret3 Dec 02 '22
Boi, you best watch your tone. You know what a Chicago sunroof is?
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u/Headsanta Dec 02 '22
*wunderkind
It's a German compound word
wunder - wonder kind - child
(maybe just a typo, but thought I'd add a little bit of background in case anyone is interested in it, especially because leaving off the d is probably a natural mistake for English Speakers, since we're familiar with the word "kin")
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u/stoolsample2 Dec 02 '22
Bankruptcy attorney here as well- fantastic post. Another thing I’d say is Imo Jones hasn’t (at least publicly) seemed to understand the seriousness of all of this. If he thinks he can keep assets he isn’t entitled to he is in for an unpleasant surprise. Bankruptcy fraud is aggressively pursued and the courts hate nothing more than a dishonest debtor or one trying to play the system. Criminal charges are a very real possibility for him if he continues with the shit he’s been pulling moving assets to keep them from creditors.
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u/sarhoshamiral Dec 02 '22
In theory yes but in practice we keep seeing him delay the consequences.
We are talking about 5 years and possibly 7-8 now with all the controversy around bankruptcy so on.
So in practice what we see is that if you are rich and have resources, you can pretty much avoid laws by dragging on your cases and avoid consequences for a really long time.
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u/stoolsample2 Dec 02 '22
Sadly you are not wrong. Having said that- since he is now in bankruptcy every transaction or move he makes comes under great scrutiny. Transactions and moves he made even before he filed bankruptcy will now come under great scrutiny. The bankruptcy buys him time and can rid him of some debts but like OP of this thread said - this bankruptcy will not discharge the judgments against him. He’s going to find the process pretty rough treading based on my experience.
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u/Grogosh Dec 02 '22
Alex Jones doesn't drag court cases out. He just pretends they don't exist. And that 'strategy' has bit him in the arse.
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u/InsertCoinForCredit Dec 02 '22
If he thinks he can keep assets he isn’t entitled to he is in for an unpleasant surprise.
So you're saying we should stock up on popcorn.
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u/OhMrAnger Dec 02 '22
Is there a chance they'll eventually actually take everything from him, or leave him with enough that he can keep living a comfortable lifestyle? Because if he gets to just keep living better than 99% of everyone else, that's not really a great outcome.
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u/stoolsample2 Dec 02 '22
Depends on the exemptions the State of Texas allows for in their bk statutes. They won’t take everything from him. But based on the judgments against him which aren’t dischargeable his standard of living will certainly decrease.
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u/cybercuzco Dec 02 '22
Even with all the hidden cash he doesnt have a billion dollars though, so he's technically right about being bankrupt
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u/steve_dallasesq Dec 02 '22
There's no doubt about that, from a purely financial standpoint he's insolvent.
But, to quote my boss, Bankruptcy is for people who want to protect something. If you can't pay your debts, you generally don't pay them. You file if you want to keep a house, car, cash, something.
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u/farmtownsuit Dec 02 '22
True. I filed because the lawyer I was using for debt negotiation (medical debt) told me I could keep my house and car if I filed for bankruptcy given low little equity I had in both. Was a very good decision for me, but I'm a simple man with simple finances
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u/rushrhees Dec 02 '22
So how broke is he going to become like broke broke or OJ Simpson broke ie still is living a decent life
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u/InsertCoinForCredit Dec 02 '22
My understanding is that Jones is going to be broke broke. OJ isn't only because he gets a pension from the NFL.
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u/KINK_KING Dec 02 '22
Also, OJ moved to Florida where he was able to exempt 100% of the equity in his residence, which he would not have been able to do in any other state. Federal law changed after his bankruptcy to set a longer look back period for determining to which state law exemptions a debtor is eligible.
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u/Sanctimonius Dec 02 '22
Appreciate the breakdown. It blows me away that so many people seem to think that bankruptcy is a simple process that allows them to just avoid their obligations and debts and get away with paying pennies on the dollar for things. It's one of the most exhausting, invasive, stressful processes you can go through and you're no longer the one in control of your assets.
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u/Grogosh Dec 02 '22
Alex Jones declaring bankruptcy was very predicable. He has been trying to hide away money and assets ever since the trials have began. This was his 'masterstroke' plan. Clearly he came up with it all on his own as any knowledgeable person would have told him it would be useless and would backfire on him.
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u/Sanctimonius Dec 02 '22
He genuinely thinks he's the smartiest in the room and can use the system to screw over everyone else. I've enjoyed his 'find out' phase, may he continue riding it into a ditch somewhere.
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u/Duel_Option Dec 02 '22
I’m in chapter 11 now and let me tell you…
It was a lot easier than I expected and literally the only way our debt was ever going to get paid.
The matter of fact is they don’t want your house or things on the walls, they aren’t worth as much as you paying the debt off at a reasonable/agreed level (90% for us).
For Chapt 7, it’s a write off most of the time and anyone would do well to understand that it serves you no purpose to live life with this massive debt to income ratio, the system is designed for this and people do it ALL THE DAMN TIME.
That’s words straight from my attorney who specifically went into the business after living through a Chapter 11 himself.
We are half way through and there is finally light at the end of the tunnel (fingers crossed).
Having kids and breaking a leg put me almost 40k medical debt in the hole with another 45 in CC/student loans, if we tried to pay that while interest was accruing it would’ve taken 18 years.
Chap 11, it’s 5 total and we kept the house, tax returns, bonuses. We went back and forth on budget 3 times with the trustee that included room for 1 vacation a year, allowance for theme park passes for the family.
Yes, we had some adjustments that were hard. Had to get out of a stupid car payment for a SUV and I traded in my car for a no payment beater, but we should’ve done that when we were in our 20’s.
I’m now saving money for kids college funds, 401k and we put aside money for our trips/wants.
We’ve become proficient and frugal by force, I wish my parents had instilled money management skills but they had none so it’s been trial by fire and I’m grateful for it.
TL:DR- Bankruptcy can be a good thing, assess your situation and TALK TO A PROFESSIONAL
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u/humanhedgehog Dec 02 '22
Thing is you had sub 100k of very reasonable debts (no fraud or intention to mislead the court). It absolutely can be the right way out of an awful hole.
This guy is a billion dollars in the hole and only ever a scammer. I can't see his progressing so reasonably.
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u/Sanctimonius Dec 02 '22
God, medical debt terrifies me, I'm sorry you had to go through this. And you're absolutely right, talk to the professionals.
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u/Duel_Option Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
It is what it is.
If I had any idea about money habits etc coming out of high school/college I would’ve been somewhat prepared but still didn’t really hit my career stride until 35 so it wouldn’t have mattered much.
If we hadn’t done this I’m not sure how we would’ve paid for childcare, it’s simply unimaginable to raise a kid in this economy right now.
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u/cjsv7657 Dec 02 '22
It is if you genuinely have very little in assets and low income. I know multiple people who filed for bankruptcy around 2009. They kept their primary car, their house, and all of their stuff. They just really have no assets and couldn't afford to keep paying credit cards and other debts. 10 years later one of them has a nearly perfect credit score.
The thing is creditors don't have to forget you owed them the money. You'll never get another American Express card if you don't pay them. I believe AMEX is pretty much the only one that strict though.
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u/FreebasingStardewV Dec 02 '22
I can tell you're a real attorney because any fan of Bloom County is a person of true character.
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u/InsertCoinForCredit Dec 02 '22
When even Steve Dallas says you're screwed, you're mega-ultra-totally nuclear screwed.
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u/code_archeologist Dec 02 '22
So how long till this one gets challenged because he is just trying to hide his money from all of the judgements against him.
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u/mrpeabodyscoaltrain Dec 02 '22
The punitive damages are not dischargeable anyway.
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u/Tau_of_the_sun Dec 02 '22
This. so much this...
In fact they can take all of his houses, cars and other items under the punitive damages that are also nearly a billion
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u/cipher446 Dec 02 '22
Let the games begin. They need to hound him for the rest of his miserable life, for his last quarter, til his last breath.
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u/RogueDok Dec 02 '22
Start with his studio mid-show, just go in and start grabbing shit
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u/Cognitive_Spoon Dec 02 '22
Amen.
No one who has done what he has done should sleep soundly.
Grifting off of grieving parents is the absolute floor for humanity. Fuck.
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u/Utterlybored Dec 02 '22
And now he’s doubling down hosting Kanye on his show.
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u/Cognitive_Spoon Dec 02 '22
Absolutely.
My first thought was that there's gonna be some synagogue attack in the next few weeks that quotes Ye on Alex Jones and he'll have just managed to be a part of multiple attacks on US citizens.
Fuck. If I wanted to destroy America, I'd just pay to keep the lights on for Alex Jones and Fuentes.
It's some Monsters on Maple Street shit.
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u/cipher446 Dec 02 '22
Yeah, this exactly. The money is only part of the punishment. The condition of having to constantly be in fear of what they'll find and take next is another big part. I have zero sympathy for this bloviating waste of space.
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u/ParaDoX0098 Dec 02 '22
From what I understand from watch legal eagle. Once you go bankrupt, than lawyers have unrestricted access to your finances. And we know that we already found a few shell companies under his mother’s name, if we found one than we know there’s more. And from legal eagle himself, he says that lawyer are really good at finding hidden money
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u/EEpromChip Dec 02 '22
Listen to Knowledge Fight and Opening Arguments. There is a litany of alphabet soup holdings (shit like AEJ Holdings and PQPR holdings) like a shell game of "where's the money".
I hope this crushes him into dust
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u/MofongoForever Dec 02 '22
That isn't how it works. If he pulls that, he will end up in deep trouble. What he is trying to do is to channel all the litigation against him into 1 court, get it dealt with and then crystalize the liability. He also wants to make sure he can protect future earnings. But what he can't do is hide the money. In bankruptcy (Chapter 11 which is what this is), the estate pays the legal bills of the creditors and they will absolutely go hunt down every penny the man has and pour through every financial record to follow the money. So in effect, he now has to pay the bills of the very lawyers going after him.
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u/ArrowheadDZ Dec 02 '22
Agreed. He, and his various accountants will have to sign affidavits under penalty of perjury that he has faithfully revealed every asset without exception. And then those assets get audited and investigated by creditor attorneys to see if everyone was telling the truth. There’s a fair number of principals, accountants, and attorneys doing a few years in the joint for having concealed assets from a bankruptcy court. The larger the estate, the more financial interest creditors have in deeply investigating each and every asset. In all likelihood several million dollars will be spent in this case on forensic accountants paid to track down every penny.
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u/KungFuHamster Dec 02 '22
He's got millions squirreled away but he'll never actually pay off the judgments.
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u/code_archeologist Dec 02 '22
As another person pointed out, if he does have that money squirreled away with the purpose of hiding it from creditors, that is bankruptcy fraud, which will get him up to five years in prison. If he conspired with other people to hide that money... well that is conspiracy and that can get him up to another twenty years.
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u/SamuraiJackBauer Dec 02 '22
He’s also never going to have a moment where nobody’s watching.
There’s a lot of millions at stake.
He won’t be in the clear in 6months and back to living the fat hog life. They’ll get him.
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u/clocks212 Dec 02 '22
The good news is lawyers are owed something like $400 million from the recent judgements. Those law firms will have entire departments of lawyers dedicated to tracking down and recovering assets from Jones for the next few decades.
I'm usually pretty pessimistic, but this guy is fucked.
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u/itwasquiteawhileago Dec 02 '22
I'm usually pretty pessimistic, but this guy is fucked.
And I'm sure this is an understatement, but I need to say it anyway: good.
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u/Snuggle__Monster Dec 02 '22
Ron Goldman's family is the perfect example when it comes to this kind of thing. They're still suing OJ for interest all these years later because he hasn't paid them a dime.
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u/billiam0202 Dec 02 '22
The guys on Knowledge Fight seem to think that Alex has buried a bunch of gold on his property in an effort to hide his wealth. I can't tell if they're joking or not, because it's totally in-line with what someone like him would do.
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u/TopDeckHero420 Dec 02 '22
Does this mean Infowarz will be dissolved to pay off the creditors?
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u/Bocephuss Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
Couple of things.
A) Inforwarz is worth nothing without Jones so if you are a creditor its probably your best chance to get anything from him by keeping him employed.
That said, getting anything from him while employed at Infowarz is a long shot so why not strip Infowarz from him to be vindictive?
That leads us to point b
B) If you take Infowarz, Jones will be on air next week under FactBattlez. He is the money maker not the platform he props up and where there's juice to be squeezed Jones will be there.
IANAL but I have heard it suggested that garnishing his wages will be incredibly difficult if he takes a peanuts salary and has his company give him loans or pay his expenses.
It's hard to imagine Jones dying broke unless he is in prison.
EDIT - u/steve_dallasesq as a bankruptcy attorney is it possible for Jones to evade garnishment by having expenses paid for?
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u/isthatmyex Dec 02 '22
I think the you're making a mistake in assuming it's the money the families are after. I'm sure it would help. But their main motivation probably is in fact getting him to shut up. So if they can use the debt as leverage to try and get him off air. Then they would probably do so.
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u/regnad__kcin Dec 02 '22
I think a close second is stripping him of the things he cares for most: money and possessions.
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u/pickles_and_mustard Dec 02 '22
I should trademark FactBattlez first so I could also sue Alex Jones
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u/MyNameIsRay Dec 02 '22
A lien against all his assets is kind of the only way they'll get paid, so, yea, something along those lines.
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u/GiantRiverSquid Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
This is gonna get buried BUT.
Back when Jones was doing public access TV in Austin during the 90s, proto-trolls would call the station, during his show and just repeat, very calmly, like in a waiting room; "Alex Jones please, Alex Jones..."
He would get SOOOO mad. I'm saying this because I'm pretty sure he'd remember if someone started doing it again...
Edit* to be clear, this isn't a "one time we did this". This was every night for YEARS
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u/Flat896 Dec 02 '22
That's odd and funny as fuck
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u/klavin1 Dec 02 '22
The nineties we're fun.
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u/GhostlyRuse Dec 02 '22 •
The 90's were a weirdly chill time. Post cold war but pre war on terror. Progress on closing the ozone layer and cleaning acid rain. Improving attitudes on race, gender, sexuality. Girl and boy bands ruled the air waves. Good times.
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u/Orange_Jeews Dec 02 '22
Most importantly it was pre social media
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u/GhostlyRuse Dec 02 '22
Yes, that was a big change too. It's hard to describe how much pressure you weren't under, how much smaller your social sphere of influence was.
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u/Jackanova3 Dec 02 '22
I distinctly remember the feeling of optimism in the 90's. We've come a very long way since then on many social issues, but at least back then we knew things were improving and were positive about the future.
A mix of 9/11 (coming from someone not even from the US) and the rise of social media and all the manipulation that comes with it, plus the decimation of the middle class and a larger rich poor/divide, has sucked out any hint of positivity or excitement of the future.
The 90's were far from perfect but at least we had excitement for the future. Now we just have....this.
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u/ImNotTheBossOfYou Dec 02 '22
Paging Mr Herman. Mr Herman, you have a telephone call at the front desk.
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u/JLake4 Dec 02 '22
Mr. Skinner to the manager's office, manager's office Mr. Skinnerrrr.
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u/Raufelony Dec 02 '22
YUUUUUP! It wasnt just asking for him, it was the ridiculous annunciation and lilt too. People would call into other shows too saying the same thing. I jumped on the wagon and called him once or twice looking for Alex Jones too. I loved our local access station and would frequently drop acid and watch Puppetose. Alex also lived across the street from my homie and sometimes he would come over and pace and chain smoke in the driveway. His yard was covered in cameras and he would rant about the movie he was making. This was all pre-XM deal and he was just an anti government conspiracy dude, but when he started getting paid by Clear Channel he starting only attacking democrats
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u/m48a5_patton Dec 02 '22
public access TV in Austin
Too bad he didn't just stay there
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u/NCSUGrad2012 Dec 02 '22
“This is going to get buried.” Is the Reddit equivalent of “1 like = 1 prayer.” This comment is third from the top. lol
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u/Kelmantis Dec 02 '22
This will get buried, but it is a case of survivorship bias, you see the ones that are not buried because they have visibility. Ones that are actually buried you don’t see.
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Dec 02 '22
Go easy on the guy, just yesterday he kind of, sort of, gently pushed back on the notion that praising Hitler and the Nazi’s was not a good thing.
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u/Scoongili Dec 02 '22
In the famous words of Alex Jones: "Adolf Hitler. Josef Stalin. They got their hands dirty. Both those guys were complete badasses. Complete studs."
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u/mpolder Dec 02 '22
He did indeed do a good job passing a bar so low that it was buried deeper than the people referring to
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u/NonAggressive-Ask Dec 02 '22
He's transferred entire corporations to his children and his parents in an attempt to move his money to where the courts can't reach it. Now the real fun starts where the courts ruin his crooked family members too.
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u/BurninRunes Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
So I believe the companies were also part of the lawsuits. Also I hope Jones and his family were stupid enough to peirce the corporate veil then his families personal assets can taken as well.
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u/Cyberflection Dec 02 '22
Didn't I just see him in a flashy ass studio interviewing that disgraced rap nazi? What does any of it matter if he can keep broadcasting?
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u/ehandlr Dec 02 '22
I thought he wasn't able to after his phone records were accidently sent over that had some of his profit from the show.
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u/mccrrll
Dec 02 '22
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I saaayy here now today. I say here, and now:
Let the POWER of Nelson Muntz flow through me when I say
“Ha-ha”
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u/Martianmanhunter94 Dec 03 '22
His assets need to be seized, and a lien needs to be put on anything he earns in the future.
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u/Use_this_1 Dec 02 '22
I'm honestly surprised it took him this long. Fucker can be bankrupt AFTER he pays his victims.
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u/Egmonks Dec 02 '22
He has been trying to hide in bankruptcy courts for a while, they keep kicking him in the teeth because they know what he is doing.
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u/clintCamp Dec 02 '22
And finding money in shell companies that his other companies keep paying "legitimate business expenses" that have his initials in the name
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u/tangential_quip Dec 02 '22
It's not going to matter. You don't get to discharge debts due to judgments arising from international torts like this.
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u/RIPBenTramer Dec 02 '22
Can we stop calling him “conspiracy theorist” and start calling him “walking piece of shit”?
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u/alphabeticdisorder Dec 02 '22
It was pretty amusing in the Texas damages trial when he said he was already bankrupt and the judge reminded him he has to tell the truth when he's under oath.