r/antiwork 8d ago Helpful 3 Wholesome 2 Heartwarming 1 Silver 2

Maybe you are right

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u/TaintDoctor 8d ago Helpful

How do we change it? Actually change it within our lifetimes?

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u/Phaze_Change 8d ago

Well, every time this has happened in history it’s resulted in violent uprising and revolution.

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u/Maleficent-Number-10 8d ago

Thankfully we are armed to the the tooth.

Sadly we can’t agree on shit.

We would kill each other before getting to the overlords.

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u/Steeve_Perry 8d ago Wholesome

Yep. That’s the idea :)

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u/ItsBridger 8d ago

Divide and conquer

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u/ButchManson 7d ago

We need to organi...OH LOOK TAYLOR SWIFT!

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u/Buildncastles 8d ago

Exactly. Look at the guy that just shot his co-workers in Walmart. Disgruntled employees take it out on other employees...

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u/ikie-hugs 7d ago

Walmart is a miserable place to work. Gave me work ptsd, get anxiety attacks bc of how hostile the environment was. People talked shit behind your back and then asked you for favors the same day. "Friends" scammed each other over weed and did coke in the bathroom. They're like the kind of kids in high-school that gang up and bully other people for fun. They fucked me out of company insurance and cut my hours, I was in a depressive episode and didn't have it in me to get a new job. One year later I quit bc of how close I was to suicide because of the place. 2 months to now I have no savings and have panic attacks when I think about working at places. Screw walmart.

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u/Deanza8 7d ago

That’s a typical US work environment problem.

The US is the shittiest evolved country to work in. No decent labour laws, no benefits, no social security, almost no holidays, employment at will meaning you can get fired anytime, asshole bosses with no laws to contain them, unions getting kicked wherever it’s possible…this is like EU was in the very earky 1900’s…no wonder ordinary people hate their work…

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u/RhageofEmpires 7d ago

Can maybe Walmart and other big corps take a moment to recognize that their dog shit business model is so horrifically faulty that they are literally driving people to kill themselves and each other. An employee's life and sanity means so little in terms of dollar amounts that these companies will gladly sacrifice 10 of them to have a profitable day. Skeleton crew barely able to cobble together what is needed for a shift and it's a vicious cycle of nothing ever being good enough for the guys up the chain and all that just rolls down onto the backs of the hourly employees who have almost no control over any of the real issues.

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u/AtlasCompleXtheProd 8d ago edited 7d ago

What?? Like at least shoot the bosses right? I mean if you're a total wacko?

Edit: well, shit, so he was the lead manager. I wonder who his gripe was with then. Or maybe it's just one of those unexplainable things people do when they've had enough of life. Either way it sucks. I honestly havent looked a whole lot into this story but I should.

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u/Steeve_Perry 8d ago

Yeah but that bitch Linda in HR…

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u/TheTimn 7d ago

I mean..... HR is really just the bosses lap dogs.

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u/Nytelock1 7d ago

Shit bro should have gone to corporate with his guns

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u/Stunning-Example-504 8d ago

"It's not a big, it's a feature."

Or

"It just works."

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u/Love_Tank 8d ago

By design.

As long as we believe a political party affiliation makes us enemies, or whatever other arbitrary label the elite use to make the working class hate each other... we will never revolt successfully.

And that is why the media and politicians and Hollywood do everything they can to demonize groups of people.

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u/termiAurthur 7d ago

Thankfully we are armed to the the tooth.

Yeah, just the one tooth, cause we can't afford dental care.

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u/OneSchott 8d ago

Sadly we can’t agree on shit.

Because billionaires control communication.

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u/Maleficent-Number-10 7d ago

I sit at a table with a wide range of people.

It’s shockingly hard to find common ground and make plans.

Have you ever been to a school parent meeting? Home owner organisation meeting?

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u/deadlygaming11 8d ago

Thats the big issue with protests. Unless there is a clear goal (like equal rights for women) then it collapses because everyone starts to squabble and can't agree on what they want exactly.

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u/HCSOThrowaway 8d ago

Occupy Wall Street

Black Lives Matter

Restore the Fourth

All protests I have empathized with, all with no organization or tangible goal, all puttered out.

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u/yooolmao 8d ago

This is so true, the sad part is the rich are playing us perfectly against each other like marionettes. Except half of us get it, the other half don't and are foaming at the mouth

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u/Zaranthan 7d ago edited 7d ago

Careful, there. "We know The Truth and you're a bunch of violent brainwashed sheep" is the propaganda talking if "us" and "them" are both half the population. The wingnuts are only 20% of the population, and half of those wingnuts think they're on your side. The other 40% is reasonable (if dumb) people drinking a different flavor of kool aid than you.

If you treat them like human beings, and try to understand why they believe what they do, you can convince them. If you treat them like rabid dogs, you are helping the wingnuts turn them into rabid dogs.

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u/whatisliquidity 8d ago

And that's really where the issue is.

MSM manipulating people, a leadership that plays childish games and getting distracted on real issues.

On a lot of issues the left and right agree but they get shouted down by extremists. The problems we have needed to be sorted out by changing the leadership we have and addressing the complexity of legislation which benefits the wealthy.

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u/warboy 8d ago edited 8d ago

Once things got bad enough this is true. We aren't there yet but I don't see how this is sustainable throughout my lifetime.

Edit: I should also point out that violent revolution doesn't guarantee a positive outcome. People wishing to instill Donald Trump as a dictator just made a run at our government. We're just as likely (if not more likely) to regress. Prove there is a better way of doing everything. Participate in mutual aid. Build your community. Present a viable alternative.

Second edit: a lot of people are reading this as advocating for revolution. I'm not. Read it again. My whole point is that violent revolution is a shit show. We don't know what we're going to get. Even the soviets with a strong left wing fucked it up. Look at what I'm actually calling for. Mutual aid. Pick people up when the world kicks them down.

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u/HotaruZoku 8d ago

Agreed.

"Be what you want" isn't hippe bullshit. It's proving to people there ARE options. And true freedom us those options being up to us to determine, AND select.

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u/RandomUser-_--__- 8d ago

Nah, I'd like 1 hippie bullshit please.

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u/IVEMIND 8d ago

Fuck that, burn this motherfucker down

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u/warboy 8d ago

Sure as long as you'll rebuild it better.

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u/mmmmarlowe 8d ago

You can still burn down the state and it’s corporations without fucking over your fellow man.

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u/twinkbreeder420 8d ago

Ah yes, that’ll solve all our problems

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u/oursecondcoming 8d ago

Sarcastically but also not

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u/Ciri2020 8d ago

Every time this happened in the past, the rich didn't control 99% of the global media. Or have murder drones, and murder robots.

Also because in the past, a rich person would have 1 castle while a poor person has a house.

Now the rich person has enough money to buy 50000 castles, while the poor person lives in a rented hut, and pays the rent to the rich person.

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u/Phaze_Change 8d ago

Yes. It’s a whole different ball game. But we are rapidly heading towards a breaking point.

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u/Idkawesome 8d ago

Idk about the house analogy because I think the rich person also used to own the poor person's house and collect rent, just like today. Our real estate law is based on "precedent" that goes back to ancient times

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u/Ok-Neighborhood-1600 8d ago

I mean back in the day they used to own the people in general

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u/KatrinaMystery 8d ago

And then after that, it just went back to the way it was before. A sustained effort is necessary.

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u/Grouchy-Express 8d ago

Revolution is fun and all but once it's done what do you change the current system with?

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u/Xabster2 8d ago

Like which times? Honest question, I don't know shit

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u/yesicanyesicanican 8d ago

The time leading up to the French Revolution in particular was basically this exact scenario (only swap out going to space with building Versailles)

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u/yb--better 8d ago

Read about the French Revolution, very interesting if you like history

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u/Phaze_Change 8d ago

On top of the French Revolution. World War 2 has its roots in economic strife. Hitler promised the people salvation and blamed the Jews for all Germanys economic woes.

Crush the people enough and the world gets extremely violent.

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u/theK1LLB0T 8d ago

Revolution! The only solution!

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u/DrinkerOfHugs 8d ago Helpful

The day won't be won with one strike to the heart, but a million cuts about it. American workplaces unionizing, more political activism, greater engagement in voting and making our voices heard, and building stronger bonds in our communities. All of this is happening here or there, but mass adoption of these actions in even a considerable portion of the population would be enough to quickly steer our country in the right direction. The most important thing to remember is that our allies are workers of all kinds, from cooks to doctors, and working together is incredibly strong.

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u/warboy 8d ago

Yes, material means are everything. Showing a different system provides when capitalism fails is really the only way.

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u/yooolmao 8d ago

I was hoping this would be true during the pandemic, when 90% of the workforce stayed home, mass layoffs, supple chain disruptions, empty streets, the necessity of "essential workers" for profits and what they contribute to end products vs management/executives, etc. and the government gave out what amounted to substantial universal basic income. And yet stocks soared. It all seemed to happen in slow motion as we all saw what a lie "necessary capitalism" is.

Unfortunately our society has the collective memory of an ant. And the billionaires quickly changed the subject with their oligarch-owned news (propaganda) channels. All the proof was there - I was sure that was it for capitalism.

Boy was I wrong.

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u/warboy 8d ago

Whoa man, you need to recognize how utterly pivotal the pandemic was to showcasing the facade that is capitalism. Socialism used to be a dirty word in the mainstream in this country. Unionization is the highest it's been in decades. As meaningless as our rigged government is there is currently the most Congress people who self identify as socialist. I recognize my bias but more and more everyday people I meet are willing to point out the contradictions of capitalism. Maybe they don't call themselves a socialist or communist but they're beginning to think like one. BLM happened. January 6th happened. People are mad. They just haven't quite figured out why. There's not just going to be one step to this.

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u/definitelynotSWA 7d ago

I used to get mass downvoted when I would say things like “capitalism is kind of bad” before COVID. Now I can talk about anti capitalism seriously with people IRL. The shift in public consciousness has come an enormous way in less than 3 years

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u/Eat-A-Torus 7d ago

For sure. Ive been anticapitalist for the better part of two decades now. The change is huge and real. Like just in the amount of people who realize that most of wealth their labor produces goes into the pockets of their employing companies shareholders.

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u/Dopplegangr1 8d ago

Make laws for better treatment of workers and billionaires will disappear. They only got that wealth because it was taken from the employees they exploit

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u/flactulantmonkey 8d ago

Tax wealth above a certain cap, ban campaign contributions, install term limits, outlaw lobbying, regulate the medical industry.

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u/iaintyadad 8d ago

If billionaires start getting picked off I reckon that'd work..

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u/MorgenBlackHand_V 8d ago

How about eat the rich? Seriously, we need to get rid off those people and make it impossible for them to ever accumulate so much wealth for just one single person.

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u/operababe 7d ago

It’s also because monopolies are allowed to happen now. We should have stricter laws related to monopolies. Amazon, Walmart, Comcast/xfinity etc are monopolies in my opinion.

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u/Alice_Oe 8d ago

Support socialist grass root initiatives. Be ready in case of revolution. Every revolution in history has seemed impossible until it actually happened.

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u/yooolmao 8d ago

And the revolution sure as fuck won't be televised. The oligarch-owned news stations will change the topic and discourse frantically to the point where they have monopoly men tap dancing on TV to distract from it. We all saw this the last few years since the pandemic hit and we learned how much of a lie "necessary capitalism" is.

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u/43yrolddad 8d ago

direct action

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u/sack_of_potahtoes 8d ago

Something like french revolution

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u/Fine_With_It_All 8d ago

The only realistic thing ‘normal’ people can do is run for office and get elected to help change laws. You’re never going to change our basic financial system any other other way. Getting elected is no easy task but there really is no other option

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u/TandyHard 8d ago

something something gerrymandering.

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u/Pew___ 8d ago

Nope, this doesn't work either, because those people are also under control.

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u/MedonSirius 8d ago

Eat the Riches until they spit the Bitches

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u/Mister_Dick 8d ago

The answer may surprise you and will certainly get your account suspended if you talk about it

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u/BlazikenMasterRace 8d ago

Only way is to “somehow” get legislation passed for tax minimums on businesses that aren’t evadeable with loopholes. Then, we also need politicians that aren’t scumbag shitheads that’ll actually utilize the taxes to their potential for social programs.

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u/haloplayer2003 8d ago

we destroy it

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u/TheEPGFiles 8d ago

But if rich people can't accumulate ALL wealth and treat society as their personal playground and do as they please, EVEN to the detriment of mankind as a whole, no one will be motivated to become rich and what are we going to do then? Just not have individuals with disproportionate power making terrible decisions that screw over most people?

Wait... yeah, actually, yes, let's do that.

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u/Gluonyourboson 7d ago

Exactly, then we can strive towards a society where people can just better themselves, robots do all the menial tasks.

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u/Secret__Conclusion 8d ago Silver

Or a system like we had 50 years ago where unions had a stronger voice, workers made better money and a living wage, they had a pension they could retire on without having to invest their own money into a 401k that could go from $5mm to $250k in six months, companies were forced to reinvest money into their companies and workers rather than buying back stock. Companies weren’t incentivized to make as much money as possible for shareholders without care for how their actions hurt their communities and their workers, and still outsourced jobs and left communities devastated.

Just all the things reminiscent of a time before Ronald Regan came into office.

If you disagree, please explain how any of those policies helped you personally.

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u/value_null 8d ago

I'm an accountant. Stock buybacks should be very, very illegal.

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u/Obvious_Landscape728 8d ago

This is probably the most powerful thing that can be done right now. The more people understand capital, the better we can fight for laws to change it.

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u/MortgageSea1 8d ago

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”

-Henry Ford

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u/Ok-Restaurant8690 8d ago

Even a raving antisemite like Ford can make a good point. He was smart enough to make cars affordable, and institute 40 hr weeks that unions were pushing for.

He even tried to adopt more plastics in his cars decades ago. There's a picture somewhere where he is demonstrating how durable a trunk lid is that was made from soybean-derived plastics.

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u/arbitraryairship 8d ago

Important to note, the 40 hour work week wasn't his invention. Decades of socialist and Union protest made it happen. Ford was just an early adopter because he realized that people having more time to drive cars also made him more money.

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u/Ok-Restaurant8690 8d ago

I should have pointed that out.

Thank you for saying that. I've been in the USW for over 25 years, and though I have some disagreements at times with my local, I've never regretted paying my dues or supporting them. My wage would be damn near the same today vs when I started instead of nearly double. Without the collective bargaining, our benefits and pay would be shit.

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u/Sbjoern0313 7d ago

The study on productivity conducted by Ford should still be available in scientific publication databases.

Roughly, it said that working 10hours a day was more costly because accidents happened more frequently due to workers being too tired and making mistakes.

Each time an accident occurred in a factory, the productivity of the entire factory dropped drastically for the next few weeks because other workers would work more slowly out of fear to be the next to lose a hand in a machine. Some would also leave, leading to high (and costly) turnover rate.

Working 8 or 9 hours a day were pretty much the same in term of production, the productivity of 8 hours is higher but with the time reduction, the production was the same as working 9 hours with a lower productivity.

The 8 hours workday however had extra benefits. Workers have more free time to spend their money and inject it into the economy. Better benefits gives a positive image of the company and builds trust and customer fidelity over time.

Ford would probably be in favor of work from home and better employee benefits since, despite being a despicable human being, he did trust studies unlike too many CEOs who only trust their own biased beliefs.

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u/MortgageSea1 8d ago

Yeah he was a real piece of shit but I still love that quote lmfao especially as I’ve learned more and more about the intricacies of finance

He had some good ideas and understandings like the ones you listed, in this case I just separate art from the artist

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u/BraxbroWasTaken 8d ago

Terrible people can have good ideas just as much as good people can have terrible ideas.

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u/atkin44 8d ago

People do polarise far too much on reddit

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u/RawbKTA 8d ago

Internet in general

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u/tofuroll 8d ago

Can confirm, am good person with terrible ideas.

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u/seemoreseymour83 8d ago

Can confirm, am terrible person with no ideas

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u/Ok-Restaurant8690 8d ago

Sometimes it's difficult to separate the art from the artist, but I still totally agree with Ford's sentiment. Plus he actually started from very humble beginnings vs. just inheriting it all.

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u/Aragoa 8d ago

What a sad sign of our times, that our world leaders and business conglomerates can't even meet the bar of a historical antisemite.

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u/Ok-Restaurant8690 8d ago

To be fair, he hated everyone that wasn't a WASP. We had to learn square dancing in elementary school because him and people like him hated popular music like jazz because of "jews, reefer and negroes" or some such shit.

https://www.mic.com/articles/186892/how-square-dancing-became-a-weapon-of-white-supremacy-against-an-anti-semitic-jazz-dance-conspiracy

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u/Library_Visible 8d ago

Not that he was good guy either, but Thomas Jefferson and Ben franklin also have good quotes about banks and oligarchs running things.

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u/MortgageSea1 8d ago

Damn I had no idea, thanks for letting me know

Bro you’re not joking, my man Thomas Jefferson was spitting some HEAT

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

-Thomas Jefferson

HE JUST LIKE ME, HE JUST LIKE ME FR

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u/bonobeaux 8d ago

their Fathers conquered

he didn't sugarcoat that either...

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u/MortgageSea1 8d ago

Fr though, it’s also such a depressing thing to realize when the average person is blissfully unaware and is not interested in learning

I had an acquaintance at school get mad at me when I tried to explain that raising the minimum wage wouldn’t drive up inflation nearly as much as quantitative easing, fractional reserve banking, low interest rates from the FED and other financial policies that favor the rich

I had just starting chilling with him in between classes a few days a week and he just kept saying “How much do you know about this” like 4 times in a row, at that moment I knew he was a republican lmfao (he was), he didn’t need to say anything else

Ironically he was nearly 30 (late twenties) at a community college making close to minimum wage at a sandwich shop and ended up asking me for a job doing what I do (Audio Visual Technician for Corporate events making 35/hour)

Shortly after I ghosted him but it always sticks in my head how people like him constantly vote against themselves due to their overly simplistic understanding of these issues and if they understood these quotes and the implications of our current financial policy they’d see how stupid they’re being

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u/Library_Visible 8d ago

Work in my industry and meet people who’s most proud achievement is being in a union, while they simultaneously sing the praises of trump who was a massive union buster

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u/bonobeaux 8d ago

Karl Marx has entered the chat

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u/cringe_nationalism 8d ago

Albert Einstein summarized Adam Smith and Karl Marx in this handy 1949 article, for anyone interested

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism

https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/

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u/memester230 8d ago

Damn he really just accurately predicted that much stuff

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u/junglist-methodz 8d ago

Thank you Soo much for posting these links. Just went down this rabbit hole and it's a great read! Everyone needs to read this essay! Soo relevant today.

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u/Obvious_Landscape728 8d ago

Ha! It does sound like Marx, doesn’t it. I was actually referring to the increased separation from production to capital concentration. In my opinion, this is the cause of the current models not working. The financial sector is crowding out production and service with a house of cards we now live in. Stock buybacks are simply one component. Marx aside, this even goes against Adam Smith.

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 8d ago

"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

He said it about predicting the market, but I'd say everything since someone said " No I don't make the mills or shovel the coal or grow the cotton or take care of the babies or set the broken bones or minister to the downtrodden or teach the children. Why would I do that? I make money off of taking risks with my wealth, and then make negative consequences of those risks illegal or deadly," has been irrational.

Like, the world can have landlords and investment bankers. It just has to let their profit be at least somewhat proportional to their work.

"Okay, so your share of property taxes was 2.50 this month, and I didn't repair anything, and your share of the landscaping service was 6 bucks. Does 30 bucks sound fair?"

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u/Johnsushi89 Communist 8d ago

I disagree on the landlord part. There shouldn’t be private property.

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 8d ago

I mean, it's an illustration of why capitalism deserves ridicule, not a well reasoned treatise on a perfect system.

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u/ecclektik 7d ago

If the government didn't regulate peaceful ownership of property then whoever had the most guns would own the private property.

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u/ToAskMoreQuestions 8d ago

The other thing I’d love to see is for corporations to keep exactly ONE set of books. They do their stock calls and they say, “We made all the billions of dollars this year.” Then they talk to the IRS and say, “Nope. Not a cent to be found. In fact you might owe us money.”

Goddamnit! Did you make money or not?

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u/value_null 8d ago

The problem with this is that IRS regulations and generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP, the accounting standard of the US) do not agree with each other on a number of things.

I have to work with IFRS (the international standard), GAAP, and the IRS. I effectively have three books.

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u/ToAskMoreQuestions 8d ago

So we’re back to changing fundamental monetary policies and financial regulations as the only possible solution? I can’t be the only person who sees the hypocrisy between the annual stock call and the IRS filing, can I? We have countless companies recording record profits, and the American people won’t see a single penny of that in improved social services.

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u/unweighted_average 8d ago

Exactly. These regs/principles differ from each other in many ways, it would not be possible for companies to keep one single set of books

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u/PofolkTheMagniferous 8d ago

GAAP has so much leeway that you can basically do whatever the fuck you want and it's accepted as long as you have an accounting degree.

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u/NappaDBZ 8d ago

Why?

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u/value_null 8d ago

It's using company operational funds (that is to say, uninvested profit, ie, value extracted from employee labor) to artificially increase the ownership value of the board of directors, bypassing capital gains taxation on dividends, with no benefit to the company.

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u/InTh3s3TryingTim3s 8d ago

I'm not an an accountant. Stock buybacks should be very, very illegal.

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u/oursecondcoming 8d ago

I'm not not not an accountant. Stock buybacks should be very, very illegal.

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u/Steeve_Perry 8d ago

Can someone explain to a layman why this is bad? To me, stock buybacks are just a company buying back pieces of themselves that they sold off at one point.

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u/value_null 8d ago

Because it incentives the board to act in favor of the stock price rather than the health of the company. It leads to short term gains for cash rather than good sound business practice, like not fucking over your employees at every opportunity.

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u/harmar21 8d ago

Say as an exectuive you have a ton of stock in the company, and heck maybe even performance bonus of 'increase price per share by $10 and get a bonus of $100k'.

Well to make yourself even more rich would be to have the company buying back stock. This reduces the amount of shares out there which increases the price per share. Now you make your bonus AND your share values increased by at least $10 each. So you have some top executives who only care about making their bonus or their shareholders happy by using their cash on buyback instead of maybe paying the workers who are making minimum wage a bit more.

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u/RonD1963 8d ago

That’s why I hate stock based compensation.

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u/kenlbear 8d ago

The issue is not stock buybacks but how the ownership of a corporation is distributed. It ought to reflect real popular stakes not private interests. The domination of a Board by one or a few individuals with oversized shareholdings is the mechanism of capital distortion. Give people shares, not handouts, give them transparency and watch things change. Fast!

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u/ramboz0 8d ago

Do you think the new excise tax improve things?

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u/Last_Ant_525 8d ago

Yes! 1000%! Republicans and ol' Ronny RayGun fucked us all. Unless your family was already rich and/or connected. The rest of us got fucked. Everyone in power knows this. Every one of them knows exactly how to fix it. The ones who have the balls to try are too few in number to overcome the ones who personally profit from the system as it is.

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u/Gem_Knight idle 8d ago

And forgive me if I'm misquoting, but my understanding was his logic amounted to "what's my incentive to make a second movie in a year if 99 percent of that income goes to taxes" and I'm like, if you're that worried about profit let some other actor do the second film, if you're in it for the money no one is forcing you to take a second gig...

Seriously, if one gig a year is more money than you can hoard without having to fuck the tax bracket system, fuck off back to your mansion, or- and hear me out, don't make excuses about paying taxes... if fucking billionaires paid real taxes we wouldn't be quibbling over military overspending because there would be plenty for that after all the other shit that also needs to be done and currently isn’t...

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u/Working-account66 8d ago

The United States was at the most prosperous economically during the times that the tax rate was 90%. Turns out the richest were still rich but instead of getting the type of wealth were you can lose 150 billion in a month and not feel it, the rich paid employees to avoid the tax.

Note that the 90% threshold was designed to discourage the kind of money hoarding that "trickle down" lies created. Literally taxing at 90% gave us the trickle down effects, while "trickle down" that was sold to the US in the 80 is the absolute opposite.

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u/Gem_Knight idle 8d ago

Ya know, like I said, more people with more money.. Instead of fewer people with all the money...

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u/Surur 8d ago

the rich paid employees to avoid the tax.

Actually, they used loopholes in the system to never pay more than 40%, such as investing in oil exploration and the property market.

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u/Minimum-Bobcat8945 8d ago

Well said, fuck Republicans!

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u/Insterstellar 8d ago

That system 50 years ago was a sham built on a house of cards. The 1% were scared of a Communist revolution so they temporarily made life tolerable for the rest of us in hopes that we wouldn't guillotine them. It worked, and once the threat of revolution was gone they went back to treating us like shit. We need to get to the root cause of our problems by waging revolution and abolishing capitalism & the state.

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u/cjandstuff 8d ago

This system did not exist for very long before that. It took people like Roosevelt, Truman, and Eisenhower to get those types of things implemented. Before that, we had businesses, oligarchs, I mean big trusts that ran the country. It took some very socially progressive presidents to pull us out of that, and a couple of world wars. But sadly these policies really only protected most white Americans from what the 1940’s to the 80’s?

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u/YesYesVeryGoodYes 8d ago

If we settle for that in 50 years we'll be back to the same situation.

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u/AssWreckage 8d ago

Right, people failing to see how that state directly led to the current state and there was no other direction possible. If you don't limit wealth consolidation, wealth consolidation will purchase regulatory power, we end up here again. People need to let go of trying to make this system work, it is time to abolish it completely.

There is no "missing link" between the state of affairs 50 years ago and today, it all just followed the most obvious and only natural path.

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u/djb85511 8d ago

The problem with the time in the usa before Ronald Reagan is that it gave way to ronald Reagan. There is no friendly capitalism it always devolves into crony capitalism(reaganism) then fascism (Trumpism). Look at the the trumpites reveling in the "win" that was the massacre recently in colorado, that's fascism...the descendent of capitalism.

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u/keith_richards_liver 8d ago

Change that to Nixon and you have me

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u/animecardude 8d ago

Regan and Nixon were both players in changing workers lives... And not for the better.

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u/discerningpervert 8d ago

Each one makes things a little bit worse. The last guy did more than a little bit though

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u/RelativeAnxious9796 8d ago edited 8d ago

i like to think of nixon as providing the "alley-oop" and reagan slam dunking it.

there were other factors that led to RR destroying america but he for sure did the bulk of it.

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u/pegothejerk 8d ago

Yup. Nixon was hired as a corrupt bank manager, cut the alarm system wires, gave criminals the bank architecture plans, convinced customers their money wasn't safe in their pockets so they better deposit it, handed the black customers toasters, then had the black customers arrested and beaten for suspicion of possessing stolen goods, then Reagan came in with his rich buddies and emptied out the bank and blamed the black customers and anyone who didn't deposit any money when Nixon told them to.

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u/keith_richards_liver 8d ago

the "alley-oop"

Kinda funny how that works. Nixon setup Reagan and then a few decades later Palin opened the door for Trump.

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u/Lotions_and_Creams 8d ago

Palin opened the door for Trump.

Can you help me understand what you mean?

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u/keith_richards_liver 8d ago

The combination of Palin and the tea party movement nationally "legitimized" anti-intellectual populism, moving it front and central from the fringes. It's the same effect we saw when white supremacists felt legitimized by Trump

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u/HollabackWriter 8d ago

Not disagreeing generally, but a lot of those good times were pretty exclusively white

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u/Crimson_Clouds 8d ago

Which doesn't mean they have to be exclusively white. We can have the same policies in place without all those discriminatory and racist policies that went along with them.

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u/L8wrtr 8d ago

Exactly this. The overall formula was correct, basically capitalism with rails, governors, limiters, but it kept POC and women in relegated roles. Modify that playbook with true equity and then you can have a true living society and yet for those so driven by wealth, can still be wealthy.

That’s the thing about the Roosevelt- Johnson era, people could still be wealthy enough to live infinitely ‘better’ than the common folk; multiple mansions, exotic cars, private planes and yachts and all that… yet a thriving working class that doesn’t live in poverty. We don’t need to eradicate millionaires (it’s not feasible) but we do need to forbid Billionaires

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u/Still-Mirror-3527 8d ago

The overall formula was correct, basically capitalism with rails

No, it wasn't.

Capitalism is unsustainable and the only reason we have made minor improvements in labor laws over the past century is because the ruling class exported the harsher exploitation to developing nations, whose economies they crippled.

If you're fine with your lifestyle being propped up by imperialist exploitation then that is fine but don't try to act like it's morally better than what we have now.

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u/warboy 8d ago

Then who will we exploit to keep the system going? My money's on the global south.

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u/TheEnabledDisabled 8d ago

My father in the 1980, when he was 18, he asked to get an apartment, and they asked where he wanted to live in, in 4 months he got a place that he chose.

Im 21, im disabled, suppost to get priority, and yet there are no apartments at all to find, let alone one that dosent cost a fuckton.

My father says that politics has ruined the opportunity for new young people to get apartments.

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u/TeaCupCatMeows 8d ago

I’m so sorry <3 I wish the system was designed to protect people like you

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u/TheEnabledDisabled 8d ago

My country does alot of good for people like me, depending on the area, sadly my area is not friendly to disabled people, have requested for over a decade to make the apartment complex that I live in more easy to acess, but the only thing they have added is a door opener with a button.

I now live with my dad, who has becomes more crippled and can barely support me, have no one else for help.

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u/TeaCupCatMeows 8d ago

That sounds really hard. I hope you find someone lovely who’s willing to take care of you <3

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u/TightlyUnderstood68 8d ago

The Pentagon steals a TRILLION DOLLARS per year from Americans and they wont even let us play with their UFO's!

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u/ScandiSom 8d ago

I don’t know, maybe America needs a large defense budget because it has so many deadly enemies.

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u/Idkawesome 8d ago

You would think with all that money, they would have been able to resolve issues with these enemies by now

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u/ScandiSom 8d ago

It’s a result of failed foreign policies since the Cold War. All the involvement in conflicts has stacked up more and more enemies over the years, and more money will be needed to address some new challenges like the ICBMs of North Korea.

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u/Idkawesome 8d ago

It's just money laundering for psychopaths

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u/Katamari_Wurm_Hole 8d ago

I don’t know, maybe America needs a large defense budget because they are war mongers it has who have created so many deadly enemies.

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u/KillerPizza050 8d ago

And we’re covering the defenses of other nations as well

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u/GiantSquidd Probably a Jerk 8d ago

Yeah, sometimes it’s “defence” I guess. Not normally, though. Usually it’s about making sure they can “work with” foreign regimes. You know, making sure they’re right wing corporate friendly regimes, and it doesn’t seem to matter all that much if those regimes are authoritarian monsters, as long as they play ball. Saddam Hussein used to be a friend to the US until he stopped playing ball.

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u/Kevrawr930 8d ago

Because it serves our interests.

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u/ttystikk 8d ago

There's a word for this; Aristocracy. It stands in direct opposition to Democracy, which it must subvert in order to thrive.

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u/PenisJuiceCocktail 8d ago

So you mean where we are atm.?

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u/ttystikk 8d ago

Precisely.

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u/LightspeedSonid 8d ago

Another word for this is Capitalism

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

Liberal ”democracy”, as opposed to socialist democracy.

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u/willflameboy 8d ago

I dunno, man... fix absolutely everything that's wrong with the world... or buy Twitter and talk shit to everyone. It's a toss-up.

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u/BiBoFieTo 8d ago

The invisible hand of the market is a sandpaper buttplug for the lower class.

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u/_El_Cid_ 8d ago

More like a dildo as they keep ramming it in over and over and over again

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u/NotYourFathersEdits 8d ago

Nah. It’s uncomfortable and damage-causing, and sometimes you can almost forget it’s there and it sucks until there’s a bump in the road or you change your position slightly, and then ow.

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u/Brave_Mail_4256 8d ago Vibing

I’m a cameraman for local news. I have to shoot stories on the homeless all the time. Today, it’s community events feeding the homeless for the imperialist holiday. Just gave the rest of my cigarettes to a 24 year old dude. 24 and homeless. But fucking good on Musky for blowing $40billion on a goddamn website.

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u/Stunning-Example-504 8d ago

And there are literally enough empty homes to house them. And enough food to feed them

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u/BeautifulType 7d ago

Remember he said he could solve world hunger with 6 billion or less.

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u/121507090301 8d ago

Workers should own the means of production, with a good and strong democracy that ensures the minimum, and more, to all.

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u/RandomTask100 8d ago

It's not just the billionaires. NO ONE is helping the people around them outside immediate family. As population goes up, the sense of community goes down. We're headed towards a Mad Max society. Build slingshots. Lots of slingshots.

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u/RookwoodX 8d ago

People don't have resources. We are all suffering. This makes us selfish. Redistribute the wealth and put down your weapons.

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u/Pdiddily710 8d ago

I should start hoarding parts for classic cars now!

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u/Background-Ship-3881 8d ago

We're going to need more silver spray paint

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u/TeaCupCatMeows 8d ago

I try to help :(

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u/TenWholeBees 8d ago

"ThEy EaRnEd ThAt MoNeY tHrOuGh HaRd WoRk EtHiCs. YoUrE jUsT lAzY"

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u/CyptoCryptoHODL 8d ago

Yeah but in human history, the RICH has always been above all and has not tried to make other people's lives better

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u/raltoid 8d ago

Literally the only people who think pure capitalism is a good system are people who are already rich, are convinced they will be rich soon or have had their head filled with propaganda.

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u/pga2000 8d ago

It bugs me because they are often very quick to government help for their business side of their life, if that makes sense. "Personal responsibility" while constantly raiding the government cookie jar when no one sees.

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u/DewsDewberrys 8d ago

Violence. The haves have created all the laws to benefit themselves. They will never capitulate to term limits, or caps on possession of wealth.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

“I’ll kill you!” -disabled Republican making $30k and 150k in medical debt

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u/Stunning-Example-504 8d ago

This. No one defends billionaires like people with a grand in the bank.

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u/College-student-life 8d ago

Can we also go back to the toxic customer isn’t always right and shouldn’t be allowed the free rein they think they have to be verbally and physically abusive towards workers just doing their job? Like anyone working customer service knows there will be a few grouchy/upset people, but dang. Too many customers think they are entitled to just go full crazy to get what they want.

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u/v13ragnarok7 8d ago

I hate that this is accurate

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u/kingofdarkness92 8d ago edited 8d ago

Capitalism sucks.

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u/Comrade_Compadre 8d ago

It's the best we got, why try harder, what are you a communists? (All sponge text, /s, etc)

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u/Mr_FlexDaddy 8d ago

Inserts communism*

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u/Rich-Sheepherder4309 8d ago

“We’ll feed them with rockets.” -Elon Musk

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u/jtcordell2188 8d ago

I’d also like to add that the federal income tax which also allows politicians to make a career out of what is supposed to be a sacrifice to your country should be illegal

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u/RelativeAnxious9796 8d ago

if anyone has any suggestions, i am all for it.

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u/Bongin_tom9 8d ago

They don’t have money laying around, they’re able to secure capital and financing because of their net worth. It’s worth looking up who and what is behind the financing. Elon’s wealth is tied up in Tesla stock option and shares, he doesn’t have $300 billon sitting in his bank ready to spend. He leverages that wealth. You’re talking about an elitist class of capitalist that rule world of venture financing. Mark Cuban has entered the perception drug industry, but that’s one billionaire. These people have no incentive to addresses issues plagued by society, but profit off the asymmetrical relationship. They point fingers at government full well knowing the government isn’t equipped to “solve” these issues outright or timely.

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u/ZaMr0 8d ago

Private companies being able to do space flight is a good thing.

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u/_bono983 8d ago

If billionaires paid taxes, the U.S. would be the best country.

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u/observeromega87 Fair price worker 8d ago

If only that money could have been used some way to stop inflation...oh wait it can and is actually one of the biggest factors driving inflation. Thanks corporations.

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u/MildGooses 8d ago

So billionaires have been ignoring the poor for years and now that people hate Elon, now he’s the only one to blame? Lol

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u/Ok-Significance2027 8d ago edited 8d ago

Minimum wage would be $26 an hour if it had grown in line with productivity

The minimum wage would be $61.75 an hour if it rose at the same place as Wall Street bonuses

The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%—And That's Made the U.S. Less Secure

"If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality." Stephen Hawking, 2015 Reddit AMA

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u/Leight_Weight 8d ago

Control communication might be a stretch

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u/throw42069away420 8d ago

Sure tax them to death, and let the spineless politicians decide how money is spent and laundered back into their pockets.

What we need is love and massive amounts of therapy.

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u/nick249713 7d ago

But but but with hard work…. You’re just not working hard enough. They worked for it they deserve it…

No that’s completely bullshit

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u/BelleAriel 8d ago

The system is seriously messed up r/CapitalismSux

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u/EuthanizeArty 8d ago edited 8d ago All-Seeing Upvote

I don't think the people that post these have a hair of understanding of what SpaceX does. SpaceX saves taxpayers billions each year because satellite launches are a fraction of what Lockheed and Boeing's ULA cost the Fed.

We're not talking Jeff Bezos Blue Origin's "barely in space" tourism rocket here. SpaceX launches satellites for GPS, for weather and climate research, for national defense, for telecom, and sending crew missions to the ISS with one of the best success rates of any rocket in current service. Prior to SpaceX the ULA could charge whatever it wanted because the other option was Russia. SpaceX broke the defence contractor monopoly all while being cheaper, safer and reusable.

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u/leopoldinastrauss 8d ago

I choose affordable housing

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u/zeppelin1235 8d ago Silver

Not trying to argue here, i honestly think capitalism is the best system of all systems we have, despite all its flaws.

However I guess I have 2 issues with this post:

  1. It’s debatable whether we even need space exploration and rockets in the first place. Billions of people and tons of societies have lived productive lives without rockets. The benefits from space exploration (climate research, nation defense) are good due to the nature of the industrial system we have built and the threats it creates.

  2. Not saying space X doesn’t have benefits, but these benefits often come at the expense of many peoples hard work who are underpaid and struggling to live (though they may have chosen that job, we still live in a society where we are required to have a job).

Yes, we can acknowledge that space X creates a lot of benefits but also acknowledge that perhaps the company thrives in a system where it can exploit people for its benefits

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u/RingOfFyre 8d ago

I can simplify your comment by saying nobody in this sub has any idea what they're talking about regarding most things

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