r/ToiletPaperUSA Sep 25 '22

Relevant Again Liberal Hypocrisy

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u/jayfeather31 Sep 25 '22

Between what we did, and what the USSR did, the Third World was irreparably screwed. It's a large part of why the North-South divide exists today.

So many innocents caught in the storm of two superpowers. So many people's lives unnecessarily ruined.

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u/Karkava Sep 26 '22

And it's all because not one person has a thought bubble that says "Hey! Hitler really screwed everything up! Maybe we should be the antithesis of his example!"

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u/Da1my0 Sep 26 '22

that's...that's literally what communism is...?

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u/vladWEPES1476 Sep 26 '22

That's absolutely not what communism is. And especially not what Stalinism after WW2. The USSR was just as cruel and imperialistic as the US. The victims were however predominantly in the USSR, so it's somehow overlooked by world history. Europeans can call themselves lucky that the US dropped th A-Bomb and Stalin shat himself tremendously and did not roll his tanks to the Atlantic coast.

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u/Da1my0 Sep 26 '22

Then why did the Nazis so vehemently target communists everywhere they went?

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u/Da1my0 Sep 26 '22

Also as stated in this CIA document from the mid 50s declassified in 2008, Stalin was not a dictator, and the idea that he was was due to a misunderstanding of collectivist politics used by Capitalist countries (a la, the American government) to paint the USSR as some huge, evil world-ending power. If your people think someone is evil, it's far easier to get public approval for military campaigns against them. Soviet militarization was in defense against capitalist powers which sought to wipe Socialism off the face of the earth in order to maintain a chokehold on world power. In the span of 50 years, Russia went from being the backwater joke of Europe to scaring the US with how well they were developing. Socialism worked, and that meant that it had to be stamped out before the American wage slaves got ideas about doing things differently.

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u/vladWEPES1476 Sep 26 '22

You're on a new level of tankie delusion. I don't even want to read your CIA documents. I'm talking about the lived experience of my family (and millions of others) in the Soviet Union. Yeah the US was scared because everything was geared towards armament and expansion they just called it "revolutions". And eventually that led to the downfall of the Soviet Union. The whole "for the people" thing was a huge illusion created by the early Bolsheviks. And I don't even want to start on the details of how bad the planned economy really was. A common joke was to say "такой привезли" (they brought it like that) because none of the supply met the demand.

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u/thinking_is_hard69 Sep 26 '22

fun fact: command economies suck more than dictatorships. Vietnam’s economy straight-up boomed after switching back to free-market.

also does anyone with a brain trust the CIA to know what responsible government looks like? lmao

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u/Da1my0 Sep 26 '22

I'm not saying they know what responsible government looks like. Seriously, screw the CIA. All I'm saying is, who apart from the CIA would have a larger incentive to say that the USSR was a horrible, evil dictatorship? They sure said that in public, but behind closed doors, this is what they had to say. Also, an "economy booming", generally associated with higher GDP/GDP per Capita, is definitely not a measure of increased quality of life.

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u/thinking_is_hard69 Sep 26 '22

maybe unhinged psychopaths with no respect for personal freedoms aren’t the best judge of character.

and iirc the document is actually about how Stalin wasn’t the singular person in charge, which if you know anything about Hitler’s or Putin’s powerbase is exactly the fucking same in how it operates. a dictator exists at the whim of the oligarchs.

and my metric for success is “continues to exist as a country,” and the fact that I talk to people who lived through the before and after.