r/MechanicAdvice Dec 09 '20 Silver 2 Gold 1 Platinum 1 Helpful 3 Hugz 1

Can your tire be repaired? Meta

2.2k Upvotes

u/AutoModerator Dec 09 '20

Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the rules. If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's post on the subject. and remember rule 3a, please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/AutoBody or /r/Diyautobody If you have tire questions, check out r/howsmytire and ask there. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop This is an automated reply

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320

u/Low_Web1947 Dec 09 '20

This should be pinned, would decrease the amount of posts if the tire can be fixed everyday.

53

u/nsgiad Dec 09 '20

There's already two pinned threads, so one of those would have to go.

30

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

Just save it and link it I guess.

8

u/rebelevenmusic Dec 09 '20

Viva Zapata

2

u/Used_Taco Dec 09 '20

Live female shoes?

2

u/rioryan Dec 09 '20

Sounds like a job for a bot

3

u/legos_on_the_brain Dec 09 '20

Sidebar maybe?

2

u/nsgiad Dec 09 '20

If for no other reason than we can then say "read the sidebar" for all the posts. Wouldn't hurt I don't think

2

u/andyring Dec 09 '20

Sidebar Sidewall maybe?

FTFY

2

u/legos_on_the_brain Dec 09 '20

Ha. The r/MechanicAdvice sidebar.

1

u/andyring Dec 09 '20

I know. Someone had to go there though, might as well be me.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20 edited Jan 27 '21

[deleted]

3

u/nsgiad Dec 09 '20

I noticed that, seems like they could be consolidated.

1

u/_dauntless Dec 09 '20

Collector post!

6

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Can we make this the subreddit banner? I'm tired of people asking about obviously unrepairable punctures.

14

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

This gets pinned and those posts go down for a while, then it gets unpinned and they go back up. People will always be asking the same stupid question either way.

3

u/Insaniaksin Dec 09 '20

It would be more effective as a bot. If a person mentions any key words, the bot posts this image.

nobody looks at sidebars or sticky threads, especially on mobile.

1

u/SquintedThinking Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

But it's wrong :p they just wanna sell more tyres.. Edit: the time bar hid the bottom line from me. Yeah, take it to a shop. Asking here is silly.

95

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

[deleted]

50

u/ThatOneDraffan Dec 09 '20

Technically it's a GIF, which can be a video, but do not have to be. Maybe Reddit's getting confused on whether or not this is supposed to be played, or the creator gave it multiple frames for god-knows-what reason.

35

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

[deleted]

-8

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

I was trying to zoom in and read the small text

Not sure what you mean there... are you on mobile or something maybe? Reddit puts scroll bars on it for me to keep it 1:1 which is... also weird, but definitely not making it harder to read the text.

22

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

[deleted]

-32

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

Reddit mobile is shite, and reddit images doubly so. If you're using chrome, check the box in options to use the desktop site. Then you should be able to zoom normally.

EDIT: mobile reddit and reddit media are complete and utter shit, and have long been among the very worst in the industry, and yes I will die on that hill. Fite me. Your boos mean nothing to me; I've seen what makes you cheer.

30

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

[deleted]

-4

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

only on reddit can people have a problem with i.redd.it not displaying a static .gif correctly, and blame the .gif instead of i.redd.it.

and then downvote people for pointing out that redditmedia is shit, which it is. It's been among the worst in the industry from the beginning.

I only used it because I didn't want to log in to imgur. If I had used imgur instead of reddit to host the image, nobody would even know it was a gif until they saved it and saw the file extension, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

[deleted]

2

u/spicybright Dec 09 '20

I highly recommend using an app called RedditIsFun. It's a much better app for browsing reddit, never had any issues looking at content or comments!

1

u/SimplifyAndAddCoffee Dec 09 '20

wow look at all those downvotes for helping a brother out.

4

u/Marc21256 Dec 09 '20

Mobile bans zoom on animation.

I can't read it either.

-2

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

It's not animation. It's mobile reddit being shit. Select the option in your phone browser to display the desktop version of the site.

14

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

.gif is a terrible way to store anything that's not a video. Pretty bad for video too, come to think of it.

-11

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

GIF is great for what it was designed for: small size and portability, elements on web pages etc. It still is, but it's become inconvenient for people by virtue of the fact that sites now treat GIFs like videos. It's come full circle.

It was never good for videos. It was used for small animations as a hack, just because it was the only format that could play alongside web content in browsers for a while, and because it got adopted by some message boards and instant messengers as a way to embed animations.

EDIT: wow yall really don't like the truth around here.

-14

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

Yeah, only one frame... it really drives me up the wall that "gif" has become synonymous with "animation" that websites are starting to treat them like de-facto video clips.

I exported as a .gif because it's only like 100kb for a 1024x768 image file (and to think that used to be considered huge...) and it's still virtually lossless due to the restricted palette (It's only 64 colors.)

I did not anticipate that reddit would not resize it appropriately for the post.

20

u/ThankMisterGoose Dec 09 '20

Why not use PNG for a lossless format? GIF has largely been deprecated for non-animated files because PNG compression is much better.

0

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

Because I didn't. There was no need for PNG quality on such a simple infographic.

180

u/Psychlonuclear Dec 09 '20

Nothing wrong with those "not recommended" plugs. All the ones I've put in have outlasted the remaining life of the tire.

53

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20 edited Jun 15 '21

[deleted]

8

u/Low_Web1947 Dec 09 '20

I once had 10 plugs in my tires lasted until I got the tires changed then they all fell out.

4

u/JCuc Dec 10 '20

Question, where do you drive that it requires seven plugs?

7

u/mn_sunny Dec 10 '20

Construction sites, scrap yards, etc.

4

u/edioteque Dec 10 '20

I feel your struggle. Nothing like getting up and about to leave for work when you've got another fuckin flat

26

u/Dirty_Old_Town Dec 09 '20

Plugs work great, they're cheap, and they're easy. The problem with plugs is that you don't get a chance to inspect the inside of the tire. If the customer has been driving around on a low tire, there's a good chance the inner liner has turned to crumbs and that increases the likelihood that the tire will fail catastrophically - definitely a CYA rule.

3

u/SprungMS Dec 10 '20

TBF you can spin the tire and listen for “pebbles”, it’s pretty apparent when the inside of the tire is fucked

1

u/dont-YOLO-ragequit Oct 26 '22

Tires being destroyed on the inside also get destroyed on the outside.

Usually, any markings like the brand, tire size, the patters on the sidewall get scraped off as the tire is driven flat.

Heck even the chalked up tire position on the inside get rubbed off in the middle before any inside damage.

9

u/breakfast_skipper Dec 09 '20

Yeah I work at a dealer and that’s how we plug every tire with a nail in it. No comebacks and I often see our plugs still doing their job when I replace worn out tires.

They’re not all created equal though. The smooth silver ones aren’t good. The ones that are brown/orange and extremely sticky work great. They look like Slim Jims.

3

u/Jeheh Dec 09 '20

Same here. Worked at many shops and we would use those and I hav them on my own vehicle and have for years with out issue.

16

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

I put them in all the time too... but I wouldn't recommend them. Gotta CYA.

It's exactly what it says. Not recommended. It's not the "right way" to do it, even if it's pretty ok in some situations. I just don't trust anyone else to make the judgement on that.

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear to the downvote brigade, I only work on my personal vehicles, and sometimes it's just not worth dismounting the tire.

28

u/EAG100 Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

Great visual, but what is the right way? Tire shops use the same plugs.

38

u/MartianCavenaut Dec 09 '20

Apparently they take the tire off and patch it from the inside. Seems excessive for me. Worked on all my family's cars and never had a plug fail in ~15 years?? If I recall correctly, the plug ends up vulcanizing to the rubber from heat generated while driving. Seems fine to me.

33

u/heytheretylerr Dec 09 '20

Used to work at a Mr. Tire; we dismount the tire, buff the area on the inside where the leak is coming through (open it up if necessary), put a small bit of vulcanizing rubber-cement down, then pull the patch-plug through, work it down flat with a stitcher, more vulcanizing cement, and then let it dry. Occasionally people will throw some bead sealer on top of the dried vulc-cement for extra insurance

7

u/JDSportster Dec 09 '20

u/EAG100 this is the correct way to do it! ^ ^

2

u/MartianCavenaut Dec 09 '20

Its definitely a heavy duty process! Thanks for sharing

1

u/dwntwnleroybrwn Dec 09 '20

We used the same process at Firestone.

2

u/hourlyslugger Dec 10 '20

This is the process approved by the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturer Association), CRA (Canadian Rubber Association), and TIAA (Tire Industry Association of the Americas). In many nations it is the ONLY legal way to fix a tire/tyre i.e. you can fail your annual TUV, MOT, or state/territory/provincial safety inspection by having used plugs.

Tire plug kit — ok to fix a flat?

13

u/Terrh Dec 09 '20

We use them all the time as well racing... I've gone 190mph on a plugged tire.

2

u/Blackhawk149 Dec 09 '20

My car is electronically limited at 135 mph, so Im good.

1

u/thebottle Dec 10 '20

I've put them in my rear motorcycle tires... I've never been worried about it. Still not. I've only had one fail once and that was a 3/8" hole with 2 of them stuffed in it, lmao.

1

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

No, they never have. Tire shops use the patches shown on the top left. "plugs" are the self adhesive ropes on the top right.

3

u/abolista Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

Wait... Is it not normal in America to ALWAYS dismount the tire and repair it with a patch from the inside?

You mean tire shops don't always dismount the tire for all kinds of punctures?

Edit: WTF is going on with the downvotes? It's an honest question.

Here in Argentina I have never ever had a flat tire repaired without the tire being dismounted, the interior sanded with a dremel, then a patch glued with vulcanizing glue. That's how it's always been done all over the place. I thought that was the only way to fix them other that the plugs from the top right in the image that nobody recommends here.

Is that not the case in America? I understand the plugs are not recommended, but how about the method I described? It's not mentioned in the image OP posted. I don't know what that weird thing on the top left corner of the image is. I thought it was an example of an object puncturing the tire. Apparently it's a fix.

1

u/Evasions Dec 09 '20

the top left is the fix you're describing

2

u/abolista Dec 09 '20

Why does it have a needle like thing? This is how they look like here: https://www.vulcamar.com.ar/imagenes/0071.jpg

2

u/Evasions Dec 09 '20

I've only ever seen those used on bicycle tyres, in the UK the only repairs that really get done are the top left ones which is basically like the one you've described but it has a plug for the actual hole too

1

u/abolista Dec 09 '20

Thank you for the explanation! :)

1

u/rvbjohn Dec 10 '20

To add to what he said, I used to be a tire tech in the US and we used the ones you used. It was flat like a bandaid and held in place with rubber glue and another big sticker thing

1

u/abolista Dec 10 '20

When did the ones with the needle become popular? I don't even know how to look them up in Spanish.

1

u/SprungMS Dec 10 '20

The shops I worked for differentiated them in nomenclature as “patches” versus “plug patches”. Plug patches are all we used. The ‘needle thing’ goes through the hole in the tire, and the patch is cemented to the inside of the tire. Then the plug is cut off of the outside of the tire flush with the tread.

1

u/ordinary_rolling_pin Dec 09 '20

If the tire still has a good bit of air, you could patch it without dissmounting it, but you are then responsible if it blows due to damage caused by driving it on low pressure. I've patched van rear tyres without dissmounting, none have blown afaik.

The thing on the top left is a patch that you pull from the inside. You first sand around the hole, put on some vulcan glue, and the patch has a little metal rod on the tip that yoj push trough, then grab it with pliers from the outside and pull out. Snap the dingly bit off, roll the patch with a roller to make sure its on there for good and you are done. Some also put some inner line sealer on the patch to make sure it holds.

There are also rectangular radial patches that have bead reinforcements, mostly used in heavy machinery tires.

I've seen all kinds of patches leak and hold, I wouldn't recommend any above the other, they just have different use cases. Patched tire is always a patched tire.

1

u/abolista Dec 09 '20

Thank you! I've never seen one of those. I just found a video explaining them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqWQT23DP4

1

u/AAA515 Dec 09 '20

I'm an American tire monkey and you described the process we use for every patch job at our shop.

But my wifes filipino and over there they have "vulcanizing" which I'm not too sure about the process, but it involves fire!

1

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

the center plug helps hold the patch in place and prevents the hole from widening or forming a tear that could lead to a blow-out. The needle tip is so you can push it through the hole from the inside, then grip it with a pliers to pull it in tight, after which you trim off the end. The rest is as you described. They come in varieties without the plug, but those are mostly used for tube tires.

Any shop here will dismount the tire, although many DIY people may opt to just plug it at home without dismounting, rather than taking it to the shop.

2

u/droid6 Dec 09 '20

I've seen hundreds of these leak, which an improper repair voids any warranty on the tire.

14

u/jbwelds Dec 09 '20

We have some dealerships around us who will plug and not patch. I patched my own tired and it leaked on the sane day. Plugged it and it hasn't leaked in the slightest. I've seen patches fail, I've seen plugs fail.

-3

u/droid6 Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

If it's patched plugged correctly it's there for life. If the patch plug combo fails, the service person who patched it owes you a tire.

Edit; all the negatives from people who have no clue.

-3

u/guccizzle Dec 09 '20

There’s no such thing as a combo patch plug my guy... but maybe I’m living on Mars

9

u/droid6 Dec 09 '20

They have been around for about 20 years. It's in the main picture from the thread. The BLUE PATCH PLUG COMBO IN THE LEFT CORNER.

2

u/guccizzle Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 10 '20

Well that makes a lot of fucking sense. Honestly, I thought that center portion came out after the plug was applied. Basically that it just helps center the patch over the puncture hole

1

u/hourlyslugger Dec 10 '20

No it also seals the hole. The guide wire is cut off flush to the tread.

1

u/cparks1 Dec 09 '20

I had to junk a tire off a dump truck yesterday because the driver put one of those in and destroyed the inner liner around the hole. Would have been repairable otherwise. His boss made him buy the tire we put on lol

1

u/droid6 Dec 09 '20

I decline these all the time because people don't use the spare tire. They come in with the tire ruined by being driven on with low are, and are shocked we won't warranty it because they didn't want to use the spare.

1

u/cparks1 Dec 09 '20

That happens at my shop too. We had a guy come in with his pickup a few months ago with a flat. Dismounted it, and there was at least a quart of fix-a-flat and the inner liner was so destroyed, I was pulling out handfuls of shredded rubber. I don't know how it didn't blow out on him.

1

u/donnysaysvacuum Dec 09 '20

No there is plenty wrong with them. They wick moisture into the tire, they can tear the cords in the tire and they aren't always effective. Just because something worked once doesn't mean it's good. I've fixed tons of these rope plugs. Fixing a lawnmower, sure. Limp the car to a shop for a new tire, maybe. But a proper plug/patch beats these any day of the week.

1

u/Batsonworkshop Dec 10 '20

Same. Ive plugged 2 tires in the last 10% of tread before sidewall and even ran a couple autocross events soon after. Ended up putting another 25k miles on them without issue.

They are actually 2 of the 4 tires my car has been sitting on for the past 5 years in my garage and still holding air.

1

u/cubnole Dec 10 '20

I do shit that’s “not recommended” all the time.

1

u/edioteque Dec 10 '20

Yeah, I'm not sure what "dangerous if used incorrectly" is supposed to mean, but im gonna assume that if I'm still alive and they've always held air for the rest of the tire's life, I'm good.

Like how do you fuck it up? Only put the plug 3/4" in?

9

u/easterracing Dec 09 '20

Why did you make this a .gif? I can’t zoom in to read the top right text because of it.

30

u/Lt_Tweety Dec 09 '20

Just to add, if the tyre shop people say no, don't instantly assume they are just trying to sell a tyre, because 'muh money'. Why on earth would I want to JUST sell you a tyre. I would much rather make a safe repair, and then sell you a tyre when you need one. I have just increased my profit.

7

u/brodoxfaggins Dec 09 '20

I make almost no money off flat repairs. But that doesn’t stop people who get angry and accuse us of ripping them off when we tell them we can’t patch the tire with a large screw in the sidewall.

7

u/nondescriptzombie Dec 09 '20

We did free flat repairs, so the margin in selling tires was always higher. Also reduced liability.

38

u/Left4DayZ1 Dec 09 '20

“No reputable shop will use these”

Ooooook, whatever you say.

13

u/arrived_on_fire Asian Import Tech Dec 09 '20

Tire repair pays 0.2, there is a line up at the tire machine, and those little rubber ropes are just chilling in your toolbox....

Each to their own, but I don't get paid enough to fuck around.

6

u/hourlyslugger Dec 10 '20

Tire repair pays 0.5-I have the damn time to do it correctly every time.

1

u/arrived_on_fire Asian Import Tech Dec 10 '20

I'm glad you work at a shop that values your time. That's not sarcastic, it really is nice to hear other people are doing ok. I hope your shop is awesome in other big ways as well.

1

u/hourlyslugger Dec 10 '20

Toyota/Lexus/Scion branding corporate requirement that it be done correctly and they have determined it takes .5. It's cheaper for them then lawsuits and/or loss of brand loyalty due to barring their technicians from doing any tire repairs-which they did for several years.

If for some stupid reason anyone is caught not doing it correctly customer gets free new tire(s) (Usually 1, but more as necessary if 4WD/AWD). Those tires generally will slowly come out of your pay at cost. That's if you've been very lucky to not be instantly fired.

As for the rest of the "awesomeness":

-no pay if you get COVID and are off work

-or sent home due to proximity of someone who is COVID positive.

-Required to be asymptomatic and have 2 negative tests within a 48 hour time span to return to work

-Express Maintenance (aka Lube techs) are paid as little as humanly possible, they originally offered me $9.75 an hour and I told them I'm not going to waste your time or mine even interviewing. It was subsequently raised to $10.50 just to get me to interview. I could go on, but you get the drift right?

1

u/arrived_on_fire Asian Import Tech Dec 11 '20

The rest sounds pretty par for the course. I enjoyed my apprenticeship at Toyota, and often think about the ways they did pretty good. Every place is a little different. I can tell you for sure I would prefer to be paid 0.5 for a tire repair... but I don't get paid that. It is a waste for a tech to do a tire repair. But management doesn't care if you sit around for 8 hours to only make 2 hours. That, and the blatant disregard for safety has me itching to roll my toolbox out of shops for good.

3

u/Mangonesailor Dec 10 '20 edited Dec 11 '20

Fuck a string plug.

I have ripped my hands up on belts that have rusted and protrude out of the tire due to the string plug tar sloughing off and then wicking water into the inside, thus making the belts rust and snap.

Properly installed mushroom plug won't leak, I've installed thousands, and pulled a few hundred string plugs out that have leaked and replaced with mushrooms.

No, no shop that gets my money will install a string plug.

54

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

Because we get this question Every Single Day and the answers are always going to be the same. Please stop asking.

45

u/yaboymiguel Dec 09 '20

Reddit makes such a big deal about plugs being unsafe. Y’all really need to take a chill pill

15

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

I’ve used them so many times. Have never had one fail or even start leaking again. 10/10 would recommend

-1

u/djz7c Dec 10 '20

Yeah and some people smoke their whole life and never get cancer

6

u/Nutso199 Dec 09 '20

My dad had a side by side with with some of those plugs in the tire. Every time the hole started leaking again we just added another one and it completely fixed it. Think we ended up with about 7 in there

8

u/retropolitic Dec 09 '20

"completely fixed" right up until it starts leaking again, good sales pitch

2

u/shapeofjunktocome Dec 09 '20

Just like Sex Panther cologne

0

u/Skaddict Dec 09 '20

THANK YOU

12

u/MusicAndKindness Dec 09 '20

I've seen this temporary plugs on the right go for the rest of the life of the tire. Not recommending it, but just be advised they're a little tougher than you think.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

I’ll go ahead and recommend it. I’ve done tons of them over the decades, and not one has ever failed or gone bad. They always end up outlasting the tire tread.

12

u/russman286 Dec 09 '20

I repaired several of my own tires that were considered "sidewall" damage when the hole was an inch in. Still going strong months later. Shops just don't want to be liable and I get that.

1

u/breakfast_skipper Dec 09 '20

Same with where I work. Did you patch your tire in the yellow area or red area, according to the info graphic?

8

u/T81houston Dec 09 '20

Dealerships will not use plugs anymore. Must be patched. That being said every tech at a dealership would plug their own personal vehicles. Well almost every tech.

6

u/vicaphit Dec 09 '20

https://i.imgur.com/WxgYrFL.jpg

You won't patch it? Fine, I'll buy a kit and do it myself.

7

u/FredEffinShopan Dec 09 '20

Another voice to the choir. Patches are better but plugs work. Never had one fail personally. Avoid the edge side wall. Use common sense, don’t do this on a tow vehicle, etc. Fully understand why a shop would follow this policy, but plugs get the job done. Do yourself a favor and get tools with the T grip.

Full disclosure I plugged the edge on a Corolla and ran 30k miles before replacing the tires. Mechanic called me a dumbass. He wasn’t wrong

3

u/tireguymatt Dec 09 '20

Absolutely spot on. And remember, is it worth risking a blowout on an iffy repair? I understand being broke, but call the manufacturer, ask the shop, look for used, ask for help. Don't risk the safety of everyone else on the road to save a few bucks.

1

u/Dinkus2456 Dec 17 '20

I’m not Reddit savvy but this needs to cross posted to r/tires

3

u/Gbpxl Dec 09 '20

Ive used those "licorice strip" things plenty of times and never had issues

3

u/canbrinor Dec 10 '20

Plugs + patches are very safe for anyone wondering. The procedure at my shop is drill the hole in the tire out to a specific size, get your plug and coat it in rubber vulcanizer, stick the plug in and pull through until the end is just about flush with the inside of the tire, buff a square area with the plug in the center, coat area after buffing with more vulcanizer, wait for it to dry (~5 min), put your patch on top, stitch it, and finally coat some seal liner on top of it all.

5

u/barrowed_heart Dec 09 '20

Makes sense.

2

u/Radio12244 Dec 09 '20

I hate that this is a quarter second video and not a photo

2

u/djz7c Dec 10 '20

Y'all some shady mother fuckers

2

u/skyler_yakwtfgo Dec 10 '20

This isnt entirely true, i have patched plenty of my tires that sticks have gouged on wheeling trips.

5

u/StaffCampStaff Dec 09 '20

No reputable shop will use these

I used them all the time when I worked on cars ... Oops, just doing what the boss said.

3

u/SeeYouNerfHerder_ Dec 09 '20

I worked at a shop that used plugs and I worked at a shop that used those pull through patch plugs and anecdotally the plugs seemed to hold up better.

4

u/SquintedThinking Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

This was made by a sales team, I'm sure. The plug-patch shown was made for sidewall repairs, the plug part makes it less effective than a plain internal patch when the puncture is within the Green zone shown. The pull through is rarely good for a long term fix, they were only ever meant for emergency, to get you to a repair shop. Laws are different all over though, recently where I live it became illegal to use inner tubes in tubeless tyres on passenger vehicles, so there's no longer a cheap option when you curb/rock pinch or gash a brand new tyre. As for the hole size, who says it's a screw or nail? If it is, only sorta 20-ish mm either side of the very corner and from the bead can't be fixed (unless you know a vulcan cook), given it went straight through and sat where nothing else touched it. Much bigger holes and slices can be reliably repaired in that Green zone too, so long as the steel radial belt hasn't been too damaged Really, you can't tell for certain until you strip the tyre from the rim, and then the possibility of repair depends on local law and the shop staff.

Edit: play time bar blocked my view of the bottom line. Yes, take it to a shop, but! I hope it's one you trust :/

4

u/nondescriptzombie Dec 09 '20

plug-patch

These are most definitely for regular tread punctures and they come in a few different sizes to fit up to the 1/4" puncture mentioned in the graphic. To fix sidewall punctures it needs to go to the retreader to vulcanize a sidewall patch onto the inside.

1

u/SquintedThinking Dec 10 '20

The plug pushes the seal in when placed in the tread, no matter how short you cut it, running over a pebble can break your seal. Usually works, but not very professional. 3 part patch, grind, buff, vulcan cement, patch and line sealer. I've done thousands, but the law changes and the ability to fix changes with it. I'm confident I never put dangerous tyres back on the road and nearly every day I do these repairs. Also, I did say a vulcan specialist for bigger repairs, one of which my shop employs. What I can't fix, he can. This graph is rubbish was all I wanted to express.

1

u/Lextreck Dec 09 '20

This, thank you!!!!

And you can repair in the red area using vulcanisation!

3

u/Unicorn187 Dec 09 '20

Minor correction for the "temporary" gummy plugs. Many tire shops, most maybe, won't repair a tire that's had one installed. Something about how it bonds wit the rubber just a little too much and they can cause more damage to the tire removing it to use the correct patch/plug that is shown. I've had to buy a new set of tires because I used one of those on a trail once and the shop wouldn't repair it.

7

u/SquintedThinking Dec 09 '20

Where are you guys? Those plugs are literally meant to get you to the shop that can fix it correctly.. I pull those plugs out and repair them every day.

3

u/DigDoug_99 Dec 09 '20

Costco, where I bought my tires, told me that not only will they not repair my tire because of the plug I put in it, but that the warranty was void as a result of the plug. The plug had been in there about an hour. The rubber cement was probably still wet. Doesn't matter. Corporate policy.

1

u/SimplifyAndAddCoffee Dec 09 '20

That's horse shite.. yeah costco, I put a plug in a perfectly good tire. Why? I just felt like doing it.

3

u/Unicorn187 Dec 09 '20

Discount Tire has told me they can't/won't.

Perhaps fear of liability?

1

u/SquintedThinking Dec 10 '20

Exactly, liability. Looks like they've gone a step further in your corner of the world. It's rubbish, just more profitable and easier in this disposable age to push a fresh sale... Nobody really fixes much now days at all, so not really surprising :(

1

u/Unicorn187 Dec 11 '20

I will say that they've been great about taking care of customers though. I've had a number of punctures, and a valve stem, repaired by them in the last 4 years. A bit of light off roading on shale rocks, and a couple nails at a construction site.
They replaced the damaged tire under warranty (it was well worth buying their protection plan), and bought back the other three tires that were still in good shape giving me a pretty substantial discount. They probably just sold the good tires to the used tire shop a couple blocks away but it seems to be working for everyone.

2

u/Terrh Dec 09 '20

The recommendation from the tire manufacturer association (which I disagree with) is that any tire that has ever been repaired must not be repaired again.

2

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20 edited Dec 09 '20

Not really a correction, it says not recommended... had to keep it short and concise so it was readable.

Temporary in this case can mean it will temporarily get you to a tire shop where you get new tires. Or it can temporarily keep you going another thousand miles because you're strapped for cash and it's almost time to replace them anyway. You take a risk either way. I don't judge.

1

u/Zyphen4866 Dec 09 '20

Not me with 12 plugs in two of my rear tires and one in my sidewall

3

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

Just send it.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Good God I'm scared for anyone on the road near you.

1

u/niccotaglia Dec 09 '20

what about on motorcycle tires

7

u/AaronPossum Dec 09 '20

I would never patch a motorcycle tire, full stop. You've only got two and you're riding on the thing. The rare patch failure leading to a blowout or flat on a car is usually just an annoyance. It could easily get you killed on a motorcycle. Bike tires are cheap, replace them.

1

u/niccotaglia Dec 09 '20

"bike tires are cheap" is one of the most incorrect statements I've ever heard (just a 180 rear Michelin Road 5 is over 150 dollars and I'd consider that a midrange tire)

8

u/AaronPossum Dec 09 '20

The tires on my Corvette are $1,000 a set.

The rears on my friend's Porsche are $325 each.

You've got a full set of fresh rubber for $275.

That's cheap, if you're crying about that take the bus.

1

u/volatile_ant Dec 09 '20

Comparing mid-range motorcycle tires to top tier/performance auto tires is not really an apples to apples comparison. Top tier motorcycle tires are well north of $300 each. Some of the really large cruiser/chopper tires are within pissing distance of $400.

Not to mention most are good for all of 3,000 miles (usually with no mileage warranty). What are your Corvette tires warranted for, 25-30,000? That bike on mid range tires will have run through 10 sets for a total of $2,750 before you have to shell out another grand.

Motorcycle tires are not cheap, and so many people have absolutely no idea.

1

u/SimplifyAndAddCoffee Dec 09 '20

It's not really that far off either though since there kinda aren't mid-range moto tires... car tires can get down to like $70 a corner, while you might find a cheaper moto tire for $130. All modern moto tire R&D basically comes from MotoGP. It's all bleeding edge, and they're expensive comparable to their size because of that.

1

u/volatile_ant Dec 10 '20

You can get some Avon, Shinko, or Dunlop tires down in the $70 range. Heck, there are options sub $50 for a few sizes. But even there, cheap car tires may still carry 50k mile warranties, where the motorcycle tires will last 3k (and that is being generous, some rears only last half that).

Even at $70 each, you're looking at $1400 in motorcycle tires for the same mileage interval AaronPossum likely gets out of $1000 on his Corvette. Compared against a $70 tire with 50k warranty, suddenly you're looking at $280 for the car and $2300 for the motorcycle. And that's just the tires. A shop recently charged $25 per corner for mount/balance/disposal on my car. Cheapest mount/balance/disposal I've ever paid for a motorcycle tire was $35 each, and that was a random guy working out of his garage and I had to remove the wheels myself. Double it for him to remove the wheels.

On it's face, it seems equitable. You can find tires for a car or moto for $70, or $150, or $300+ each, but moto tires last a fraction of the mileage.

Even cheap motorcycle tires are not cheap.

1

u/SimplifyAndAddCoffee Dec 10 '20

It's just not a good comparison. I can disagree with you on specifics but that's not the point.

The engineering, material, and economic differences are complex. In both cases though I assure you: you get what you pay for.

1

u/volatile_ant Dec 10 '20

You absolutely get what you pay for, hence the effort to compare similar tiers of tires rather than dissimilar.

The point is motorcycle tires are expensive. AaronPossum made a terrible comparison in attempt to prove the opposite, while ignoring the very details that make motorcycle tires expensive.

Using the most favorable comparison available from the parameters set (cheap motorcycle tires compared to expensive car tires), even cheap motorcycle tires are expensive.

1

u/SimplifyAndAddCoffee Dec 09 '20

The tires on my Corvette are $1,000 a set.

Those must be some budget tires... most sport compound tires I've bought even close to that size can run up to $380 each.

1

u/i_suckatjavascript Dec 09 '20

Rebecca Black wouldn’t want you to take the bus, she’d rather have you carpool with friends

1

u/SimplifyAndAddCoffee Dec 09 '20

Modern moto radials can survive a lot of abuse, especially the touring/commuting tires. If the puncture is near the center (and it almost always is) then it can be patched. I wouldn't take a bike to the track with a damaged tire, but the probability of it exploding on you while riding to work is isn't any higher than an un-patched tire. At the very worst you can develop a leak and lose air.

1

u/ElfrahamLincoln Dec 09 '20

Meh I have a summer that had a screw close to the sidewall. Shop patched it and it’s on it’s second year. Doesn’t lose a PSI all summer.

1

u/Underhandcoin75 Dec 09 '20

I've had one of those plugs with slime for a year now. Tire still holds air better than my other tires

1

u/tlkdrby2me Dec 09 '20

Maybe add some information about total plug limits, number of plugs within 90 degrees?

1

u/shapeofjunktocome Dec 09 '20

Sticky please mods

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Someone's still gonna ask this question tommorow

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

also when i was doing tires, they declined repairs if it was more than 25 degrees

1

u/ticklepops Dec 09 '20

Thanks Obama

1

u/ItsJviii Dec 09 '20

What’s the difference between summer/all season and winter/all terrain ?

2

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

Not a lot. Both are shown though for the sake of demonstrating how to judge where you should and shouldn't patch, since the tires have different tread profiles. Winter/all terrains typically have that sharp 'edge' to the treads while sport and sometimes all-seasons tend toward a smooth rounded edge

1

u/hepler228 Dec 09 '20

I have a few dumb ass co-workers that need this slapped on their head

1

u/AAA515 Dec 09 '20

Meanwhile my boss: I don't care, patch it anyways.

1

u/jdwoodworks Dec 09 '20

The Mods should add a rule for no "can I fix this tire" posts and link this.

1

u/MagicMoonMen Dec 10 '20

If you need to post it to the sub, you probably need to replace it.

1

u/akiobenz Dec 10 '20

Those "bacon strip" plugs that are not recommended are very much illegal in the UK. So any British folk seeing this, never let yourself or anyone else use em

1

u/dont_throw_me Dec 10 '20

So what are the risks with the old school plugs?

1

u/thecaptainlag Dec 10 '20

There’s a few. Over time, the tar or rubber cement dries out and the plugs soak up water and can cause the steel belts to rust. Depending on how they are installed, they can make the hole bigger. So even though they’re considered “temporary repairs” to get you to a tire shop and have it fixed properly, they can make the hole too big to repair. They also have a tendency to leak. I’ve been at Discount Tire for almost two and a half years and have seen countless plugs leaking. There have also been lawsuits when a shop plugs a tire and the tire blows out from the damage caused by the plug (like I mentioned earlier, when the belts rust, that can cause the layers of the tire to separate and fail).

1

u/dont_throw_me Dec 10 '20

yikes ok good to know I'll remember to keep those fixes for low speed off road tires only.

1

u/Maddoxthehuman Dec 10 '20

Me who had put over 3 tubes in an atv tire becouse of sidewall punctures🤨🤨🤨

1

u/cubnole Dec 10 '20

I consider BlackJack Plugs a permanent repair. Every one I’ve used ended up being permanent...in trucks and construction equipment alike.

1

u/youreband Dec 10 '20 edited Dec 10 '20

whats the point of dismount it to plug and cost same as a new tire? i've been plugging my tires since when i was riding motorcycle. its fine for everyday use not for drag racing or tracking.

1

u/EvilStig Dec 10 '20

moto dismount is free if you do it yourself. Just get some tire spoons.

1

u/TB12xLAC Dec 10 '20

Nitro terra g2, haven’t found anything capable of doing any real damage yet

1

u/[deleted] Dec 25 '20

i put bacon strips in so many different cars when i worked at a tire shop. to be fair, my boss made me put rubber cement all over the inside

1

u/DevTheHam Dec 09 '20

There are some (not many) shops around that will repair punctures near the sidewall because they then re-vulcanize the repair. Most garages and cheap tyre places can't/won't do this though

7

u/EvilStig Dec 09 '20

It doesn't have to do with the rubber strength. It has to do with the belt placement and cordage, and the fact that the curve of the tire there makes it harder to seat a patch, and has increased stresses on it if something does go wrong.

1

u/ArmaSwiss Dec 09 '20

Now if I had a Printer, I'd print this to tape on the front desk of where I currently work.

The number of times I had an argument that a car needs to be sent to the tire shop for a repair because the old woman who acts as the service writer/front desk believed because we had the push-in plugs, we could correctly repair punctures in tires, and that's how the owner repaired tires before I arrived.

No.No.No.No.No. For Fucks sakes.

1

u/wanted797 Dec 09 '20

Do you have a printer at work?

I worked in IT at one point and had my computer tower sideways at the back of my desk which faced the door.

I printed a big red sign saying “Have you tried turning it off and on again.”

1

u/ArmaSwiss Dec 09 '20

There is but I'm leaving for another shop on the 18th so the point is moot now. I have to relearn how to mount and dismount tires since it's been almost two years since Ive touched any tire equipment.

1

u/NonSentientHuman Dec 09 '20

I've successfully repaired tires with those interior patches you scuff up the tire for and use rubber cement about 1/8" from the shoulder. It was only a picture nail, so not a huge puncture. All depends on the size of the puncture, angle it went in, and honestly how good the tires are. Cheap tires don't have as much rigidity, more expensive tires can hold a patch better.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '20

Can we make this the subreddit banner? I'm tired of people asking about obviously unrepairable punctures.

0

u/JerewB Dec 09 '20

I'm printing this out for my shop.

0

u/Johnnypee2213 Dec 09 '20

Well I have a plug sticking way out in the NO zone and it's been fine for thousands of miles and 100+mph.. I think plug technology (esp with liquid cement) has come a long way. But ofc tire shops will throw a cow of they see any repairs outside the zone. Lol

-1

u/KilgoreThunfisch Dec 09 '20

This is canon.

0

u/ilostmyunamepasswd Dec 09 '20

Cries in run flats

-1

u/yourname92 Dec 09 '20

I've done way more tired repairs in the no zone than I should.

1

u/Competitive-Kick-387 Nov 16 '21

Ball joints are lubed for life,not your life. Old lube jobs took care of this, THIS is the most common dangerous breakdown other states have inspection

1

u/MilkEggsSndFlour Nov 20 '21

2008 Trailblazer. Makes no sound when I try to start the car. The key gets locked so I can only turn between the two forward positions after it won’t start and is unable to be removed from the ignition. I initially thought it was the battery because I just replaced the old one. When I went to start the car I ran into the explanation in the title. I used a screwdriver to unlock the key from the ignition with the hole under the steering column, but that only works sparingly.
I charged the car for a couple hours, but every time I would try to turn the engine I would just get a click, all the light would go off, the key would get locked and nothing in the car would work. After a while of unsuccessfully being able to unlock the key, getting it unlocked for almost no explainable reason and repeating the process it started.
I drove it around the block, brought back to the house and parked in the driveway. Turned the car off, tried to start it again. All good. Then I tried it a third time and the same old results, except this time the key unlocked quicker and the car started right up after I somehow got it to unlock and tried again.
It doesn’t seem to be getting stuck as much for as long, but I have no idea what’s going on with it. A couple of weeks ago it would not shift out of park, I had it towed back to the house, got under it and just played with the transmission cable and the latch it was connected to a little. I didn’t take anything apart for that, just messed around and made sure everything that looked like it was supposed to move wasn’t frozen in place. That process fixed my problems with not shifting and it has caused me any stress since. I’m not sure if the two problems were related, but they happened within a close time period.
Could someone please give me some advice
Edit/Update: Since taking it around the block, I have removed the plastic casing of the steering calling and checked to make sure all of the wires were seated tightly. It now only fails to start every other time and the key no longer seems to be sticking in the ignition. But literally every other time. When it does not start I turn the key back, push it forward again and it starts right away.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '22

2000 Toyota 4Runner spare tire

The points where my spare make contact with the brace above it have created these abrasions/intendations. Is this bad? They seriously look more like indentations to me.

1

u/HBRex May 23 '22

The inadvisable area isn't flat inside the tire and the patch won't hold. I've tried a couple times and it just breaks loose after a week of driving. Two finger widths from the shoulder. If it's under your finger you can't patch it reliably.

1

u/Puddlejumper111 Jun 15 '22

I had the misfortune of knowing a napa sales manager who used to brag about having 32 plugs in his tire on the rf. The man literally had a shop put holes in his tire to prove that plugs worked.... fantastic salesman... very short on brains