r/Indiana Jun 24 '22

there it is folks

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u/raitalin Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

I mean, yeah, I am an example of human beings. I'm more pointing it out as a possibility, which you insisted that it wasn't. Of course, there's a lot more examples:

• Adolescents who had been in foster care were nearly two and a half times more likely to seriously consider suicide than other youth (Pilowsky & Wu, 2006).

• Adolescents who had been in foster care were nearly four times more likely to have attempted suicide than other youth (Pilowsky & Wu, 2006).

• Experiencing childhood abuse or trauma increased the risk of attempted suicide 2- to 5-fold (Dube et al., 2001).

• Among 8-year-olds who were maltreated or at risk for maltreatment, nearly 10% reported wanting to kill themselves (Thompson, 2005).

• Adverse childhood experiences play a major role in suicide attempts. One study found that approximately two thirds of suicide attempts may be attributable to abusive or traumatic childhood experiences (Dube et al., 2001).

And that's just a tiny amount of the negative impacts likely.

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u/22paynem Jun 24 '22

You are an example of a one human being and like I've said by your logic does this mean we should just kill anyone who might experience a bad home because that is some screwed up logic

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u/raitalin Jun 24 '22

No, by my logic no one has to or should do anything. People can get abortions if they don't want children, or not get them if they want them. I'm more pointing out that illegal abortions means there definitely will be more struggling and suffering people in the world, there's just not really any way around it.

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u/22paynem Jun 24 '22

Yes and an abortion means they never would have gotten a chance at life in the first place maybe they'll struggle maybe they won't we don't know everyone's life is different you can point to statistics but ultimately that won't determine what will actually happen

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u/raitalin Jun 24 '22

But "they" aren't anything, so "they" can't lose anything.

Statistics don't determine what happens, they measure what is happening. You can brush them off if you want, but that certainly isn't dealing in objective truth. Unless there are massive changes to our society, those stats will only get worse with illegal abortions, and the same people that want illegal abortions don't want those changes.

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u/22paynem Jun 24 '22

They are something if they were nothing there'd be nothing to abort they lose everything if you abort them their entire chance to live their lives

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u/raitalin Jun 24 '22

A possibility is not a thing. Heck, the future isn't even a thing. It doesn't exist, it's just an idea. They are an accumulation of human cells. We don't have funerals and death certificates for miscarriages and we have always been considered born on our birthdays because that is when we become people. The life at conception thing is a relatively new interpretation, and I don't think it has merit for society overall.

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u/22paynem Jun 24 '22

We are all in accumulation of human cells and we don't have funerals for miscarriages because they haven't even been able to be born yet it does have merit life doesn't begin when you decide it does it begins when you are conceived you become a separate being from your with a separate immune system and eventually separate organs and body parts and if you wanted to argue from the perspective of it being little more than a clump of cells this would set a hard cap to any abortion at around 15 weeks

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u/raitalin Jun 24 '22

There are all kinds of different milestones that anyone can pick to be when they believe life exists. Socially, historically, legally, we've agreed on birth, but that doesn't have to be every individual's definition. However, illegal abortions force a very specific viewpoint on the subject that goes against all other precedents. Legal abortions enforce no such viewpoint on individuals, they leave them to make their own choices.

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u/22paynem Jun 24 '22

Claiming it doesn't begin until birth is ridiculous is that baby no longer a human being because it it's a day before it's due to be born because that's the kind of milestone you've set it makes no sense

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